Question about batteries.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 13 Dec 2008 12:10:02 -0800 QN wrote:
>> While I get many bargain items from ebay, I only use name-brand lithium
> ion
>> batteries from legitimate vendors.
>
> I've bought a few cheapo li-ions on eBay, and some have been disappointing
> as far as rated capacity (lasted less time than a comparable OEM battery)
> goes, but I haven't run into anything dangerous about them. In fact, I've
> had two lithium batteries swell up like balloons while recharging, (which
> scared me a bit!) and BOTH were OEM!
>
>
>> You see, Lithium Ion batteries are very
>> dangerous, and a counterfeit battery can kill you.
>
>
> So can a legitimate one, presumably, given the number of OEM battery recalls.
> (Although I don't recall any deaths ever reported due to overheating
> lithium batteries.) One wonders if the tales of "dangerous" off-brand
> batteries isn't, at least in part, perpetuated by "legitimate" battery
> manufacturers to protect their profit margins, much like the warnings from
> printer manufacturers against using generic print cartridges to "protect"
> your delicate printer.
>
> If an online seller (either eBay or web merchant) can sell me an imitation
> version of an MSRP $40 battery for $8, then the legit one is, perhaps,
> priced too high.
>
>

If the cheap battery works, and keeps working, you're right!

OTOH, suppose you really NEED your phone and the battery fails while you
are dialing??

My battery is still working after a year in service. I think I can
reasonably expect another two or three years from it. The battery in my
last phone lasted almost five years; signs of battery failure were the
reason I bought my new phone.

Todd Allcock <elecconnec.DeleteThis@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

> In fact, I've had two lithium batteries swell up like balloons
> while recharging, (which scared me a bit!) and BOTH were OEM!

Ditto, the battery in my V3M did that as did the battery in my E815.
I had both run way down and used the computer's USB port to
recharge. I'm wondering if possibly the USB port provides a higher
current (faster charge) than does the OEM charger?

> If an online seller (either eBay or web merchant) can sell me an
> imitation version of an MSRP $40 battery for $8, then the legit
> one is, perhaps, priced too high.

Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher price
for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10 times as
much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)

I don't recall encountering that much price difference between online
and local in any other product?


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XS11E wrote:
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec.TakeThisOut@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>> In fact, I've had two lithium batteries swell up like balloons
>> while recharging, (which scared me a bit!) and BOTH were OEM!
>
> Ditto, the battery in my V3M did that as did the battery in my E815.
> I had both run way down and used the computer's USB port to
> recharge. I'm wondering if possibly the USB port provides a higher
> current (faster charge) than does the OEM charger?
>
>> If an online seller (either eBay or web merchant) can sell me an
>> imitation version of an MSRP $40 battery for $8, then the legit
>> one is, perhaps, priced too high.
>
> Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher price
> for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10 times as
> much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
>
> I don't recall encountering that much price difference between online
> and local in any other product?
>
>

There is also the possibility that you are not getting the same battery
that you would pay $40 for. "There is nothing on this earth that some
man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper. Those who
consider price alone are this man's lawful prey!"

"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:

> XS11E wrote:
>> Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher
>> price for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10
>> times as much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
>>
>> I don't recall encountering that much price difference between
>> online and local in any other product?
>
> There is also the possibility that you are not getting the same
> battery that you would pay $40 for.

Genuine. Motorola. Battery BT50 (Slim - 910 mAh) P/N SNN5813A




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XS11E wrote:
> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>> Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher
>>> price for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10
>>> times as much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
>>>
>>> I don't recall encountering that much price difference between
>>> online and local in any other product?
>>
>> There is also the possibility that you are not getting the same
>> battery that you would pay $40 for.
>
> Genuine. Motorola. Battery BT50 (Slim - 910 mAh) P/N SNN5813A
>
If you haven't gotten the idea yet that something is wrong with this then I
suppose you never will. If you believe that Motorola wholesales those
batteries for less than $2.00, I think you're deceiving yourself. (just to
keep the argument straight, I got the $2 figure from this quote above, "I've
found genuine Motorola batteries for as low as $2!") If so, then Motorola
would have to be wholesaling them for much less than a buck. Again, one of
us is not doing well in Business Math 101. Perhaps it's me.

"Carl" <crothman DeleteThis @NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:49473ad8$0$4889$607ed4bc@cv.net...
: XS11E wrote:
: > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
: >
: >> XS11E wrote:
: >>> Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher
: >>> price for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10
: >>> times as much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
: >>>
: >>> I don't recall encountering that much price difference between
: >>> online and local in any other product?
: >>
: >> There is also the possibility that you are not getting the same
: >> battery that you would pay $40 for.
: >
: > Genuine. Motorola. Battery BT50 (Slim - 910 mAh) P/N SNN5813A
: >
: If you haven't gotten the idea yet that something is wrong with this then
I
: suppose you never will. If you believe that Motorola wholesales those
: batteries for less than $2.00, I think you're deceiving yourself. (just to
: keep the argument straight, I got the $2 figure from this quote above,
"I've
: found genuine Motorola batteries for as low as $2!") If so, then Motorola
: would have to be wholesaling them for much less than a buck. Again, one
of
: us is not doing well in Business Math 101. Perhaps it's me.


It's called selling at what the market will bear. A while back I was in the
design and manufacturing side of the business. We regularly sold battery
packs for less than a $1 to the carriers.

Our cost was so low that we didn't inventory the batterers we simply weighed
them to get a rough idea of how many we had in hand,.

There was substantially more material in those batteries than what is sold
now.

At 15 Dec 2008 09:04:33 -0500 Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

> > If an online seller (either eBay or web merchant) can sell me an
imitation
> > version of an MSRP $40 battery for $8, then the legit one is, perhaps,
> > priced too high.
> >
> >
>
> If the cheap battery works, and keeps working, you're right!
>
> OTOH, suppose you really NEED your phone and the battery fails
> while you are dialing??


Whether NiCad, NiMH, or Li-Ion, I've neve had a battery fail like that-
they generally degrade over time, to where they don't last as many days (or
hours) on a single charge as they used to. As I mostly use smartphones
these days, with horrendous (per charge) battery lives, I tend to keep
several batteries around. There's an eBay imitation tucked in my wallet in
case my "real" batgery doesn't make it through a 14-hour day.

> My battery is still working after a year in service. I think I can
reasonably
> expect another two or three years from it. The battery in my last
> phone lasted almost five years; signs of battery failure were the
> reason I bought my new phone.

When I used "dumbphones" battery life was rarely an issue. A typical
"candy bar" Nokia lasts 7-10 days on a charge. Even if that were cut in
half after three years, three days between charges is good enough.
Typically the batteries outlasted the phones (or at least their usefulness.)

However, with a smartphone constantly checking for email, etc., my battery
life is measured in hours, not days. I typically get 12-14 hours per
charge- barely enough to get through an entire day. Even a 20% loss in
capacity, that I would never have noticed on my Nokia's 7-10 battery, would
force a replacement on a 12 hour smartphone battery.

At 15 Dec 2008 10:24:33 -0700 XS11E wrote:
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec.DeleteThis@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
> > In fact, I've had two lithium batteries swell up like balloons
> > while recharging, (which scared me a bit!) and BOTH were OEM!
>
> Ditto, the battery in my V3M did that as did the battery in my E815.
> I had both run way down and used the computer's USB port to
> recharge. I'm wondering if possibly the USB port provides a higher
> current (faster charge) than does the OEM charger?


Probably not- USB ports are typically limited to 500mA, less than most
chargers. Besides, the Charge circuitry in the phone is supposed to meter
out the correct charge.

> > If an online seller (either eBay or web merchant) can sell me an
> > imitation version of an MSRP $40 battery for $8, then the legit
> > one is, perhaps, priced too high.
>
> Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher price
> for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10 times as
> much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
>
> I don't recall encountering that much price difference between online
> and local in any other product?

Agreed.

"Carl" <crothman.RemoveThis@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:

> Again, one of us is not doing well in Business Math 101. Perhaps
> it's me.

We've already determined that it's you.



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http://improve-usenet.org

In alt.cellular.verizon, Carl <crothman.TakeThisOut@nospamoptonline.net> wrote:

> If you haven't gotten the idea yet that something is wrong with this then I
> suppose you never will. If you believe that Motorola wholesales those
> batteries for less than $2.00, I think you're deceiving yourself. (just to
> keep the argument straight, I got the $2 figure from this quote above, "I've
> found genuine Motorola batteries for as low as $2!") If so, then Motorola
> would have to be wholesaling them for much less than a buck. Again, one of
> us is not doing well in Business Math 101. Perhaps it's me.

Often these sorts of things are salvage and/or surplus lots. For example,
someone orders a container full of batteries and doesn't pay. The bank
who issued the LOC uses a liquidator to sell off the collateral. Or a
company has a case of them in their storeroom for use by theri employees,
but goes under, so the trustee sells the whole storeroom full of office
supplies, etc. to the highest bidder at a liquidation auction.

It happens all the time. Bargains exist.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

XS11E wrote:
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec RemoveThis @AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>> In fact, I've had two lithium batteries swell up like balloons
>> while recharging, (which scared me a bit!) and BOTH were OEM!
>
> Ditto, the battery in my V3M did that as did the battery in my E815.
> I had both run way down and used the computer's USB port to
> recharge. I'm wondering if possibly the USB port provides a higher
> current (faster charge) than does the OEM charger?
>
>> If an online seller (either eBay or web merchant) can sell me an
>> imitation version of an MSRP $40 battery for $8, then the legit
>> one is, perhaps, priced too high.
>
> Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher price
> for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10 times as
> much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
>
> I don't recall encountering that much price difference between online
> and local in any other product?

you may want to consider a plan b, i got a car charger/power cord (under
$10), charges the batts while I drive to work, or can use it to power the
phone from the cars cig lighter in case the battery dies

keep it in my door/junk/stuff pocket.....

At 15 Dec 2008 13:31:20 -0500 Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

> > Exactly. I'm not objecting to local stores charging a higher price
> > for a battery but I am surprised at them charging 5 to 10 times as
> > much (not for imitation, BTW, but genuine OEM.)
> > I don't recall encountering that much price difference between
> > online and local in any other product?
> >
>
> There is also the possibility that you are not getting the same battery
> that you would pay $40 for. "There is nothing on this earth that some
> man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper. Those who
> consider price alone are this man's lawful prey!"


Fair enough, but a battery is a commodity item. It's not like Motorola, HTC,
Nokia, etc. are hand-crafting batteries themselves with love in every
shrinkwrap. They're contracting out to battery manufacturers who slap
standard cells in proprietary shaped plastic holders.

And, while, as I said, some of my imitation batteries seem to be a little
lower capacity than rated, getting 80% of the capacity for 25% of the price
is still a bargain!

At 16 Dec 2008 16:23:49 -0500 Peter Pan wrote:

> you may want to consider a plan b, i got a car charger/power cord (under
> $10), charges the batts while I drive to work, or can use it to power the
> phone from the cars cig lighter in case the battery dies
>
> keep it in my door/junk/stuff pocket.....

Plan B? I'm hip-deep in backups!

In my arsenal: spare battery in my wallet, home AC chargers in three
locations, (one with internal battery pack to work when unplugged from AC),
USB charger hanging off the laptop, car chargers in both vehicles, solar
charger with on-board battery, and spare AC, car, and 4AA battery pack in
my travel bag. I have plans B all the way through G or H covered!