Where next?

larry.DeleteThis@skytag.com wrote:
> There are several factors which you should consider here. Lots of
> people like Obj-C. I haven't heard much about Obj-C++, but in either
> case, you'll be using a language that isn't used on any other current
> platform. Personally I've never liked that idea.
Obj-C++ is a hybrid of Obj-C and C++. It's needed to connect
cross-platform C++ core of an application with a Cocoa-based UI.
Cocoa code is Mac-specific anyway (please don't tell me about gnustep).

In article <1117690076.168497.152670 RemoveThis @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
larry RemoveThis @skytag.com wrote:
>
> There are several factors which you should consider here. Lots of
> people like Obj-C. I haven't heard much about Obj-C++, but in either
> case, you'll be using a language that isn't used on any other current
> platform. Personally I've never liked that idea.

Objective-C adds a few object-oriented extensions to standard C;
Objective C++ does the same for C++. It's useful when you have a C++
codebase that you wish to port to Cocoa. Alternatively, if you're really
enamoured of C++, it lets you code in C++ (with your favourite
libraries) and still be able to access the Cocoa frameworks natively.

> But IMO it doesn't make sense to be making this decision right now. I'd
> put it on hold at least until after WWDC and we hear what MW has to say
> about CW.

Well yes, I'd wait until WWDC. I'd expect G5 support at the very least.

> Furthermore, I've never liked Apple's programming environments, and I
> don't trust Apple when it comes to their developer tools. How long did
> ResEdit languish?

Everyone would agree that Apple have had a sea-change since then.
ResEdit belongs to the distant past.

> Have you tried using Interface Builder seriously?
> It's the lamest, buggiest piece of barely functional junk I've ever had
> to use to develop software.

I hope you've made your feelings known to Apple in no uncertain terms.
What worries me most is that the NIB formats are proprietary and thus
subject to change at any time.

> Why should I believe Apple will continue to
> improve Xcode if they no longer have CW around to motivate them?

Because they use Xcode internally, so developing Xcode has a marginal
cost for them? To maintain its competitiveness, CW needs a unique
selling point. As I see it, that is currently PEF and PowerPlant, and
the currency of those two is rapidly depreciating.


Alwyn

>> Furthermore, I've never liked Apple's programming environments, and I
>> don't trust Apple when it comes to their developer tools. How long did
>> ResEdit languish?

> Everyone would agree that Apple have had a sea-change since then.
> ResEdit belongs to the distant past.

Interface Builder doesn't belong to the past and it's junk. I can't
even remember how many bugs I filed against IB in Panther. Not edge
cases, mind you, but 100% reproducible stuff that reduces productivity.
Some of it bugs, and some of it insane design decisions. For example:

- The Duplicate command in IB is implemented as a Copy + Paste
sequence, so it wipes out whatever you had on the Clipboard when you
use it.

- You can't Shift-click to select a range of menu items in a menu.

- If you select a range of menu items, copy it, and paste it into
another menu, the items appear in a random order and you have to drag
them individually to put them back in the right order.

- You can't do anything to a selection of multiple items using the
palette tools because it just says "Multiple selection."

- There's no support for importing 'MENU' resources.

The list just goes on and on. It's just inexcusable that Apple saddled
us with such a buggy, lame tool for something so essential to Mac OS X
development and for which there is no third-party alternative. Apple
never fixed a single thing in the Panther release of IB. They finally
fixed a few things for Tiger.

> I hope you've made your feelings known to Apple in no uncertain terms.

I filed over a dozen bugs and enhancement request in Radar. They didn't
do anything about any of them until Tiger. And anyone on Apple's
carbon-dev list knows how I feel as well.

> What worries me most is that the NIB formats are proprietary and thus
> subject to change at any time.

As long as Apple supports them, I'm fine with them.

>> Why should I believe Apple will continue to
>> improve Xcode if they no longer have CW around to motivate them?

> Because they use Xcode internally, so developing Xcode has a marginal
> cost for them?

They use IB internally too, though not as much.

> To maintain its competitiveness, CW needs a unique
> selling point.

All it needs is to offer something Xcode doesn't, and that could be as
simple as a more useable interface. People will prefer one product over
another for a variety of reasons.

Larry