Entourage Issues

"Ed Kimball" wrote:

>> I read glowing reviews of Entourage and seem like I'm living in an alternate
>> world. Am I missing something?
> Well, you've obviously missed a couple of features that I've pointed out
> above. If you are having trouble making Entourage do what you want, I
> strongly encourage you to use Help > Entourage Help, which really can be
> very useful. But, as I noted above, there are many features in Outlook that
> are not in Entourage. If you want them, use Send Feedback on the Help menu
> to ask MS to add them to Entourage. But be prepared to wait.
>>
>> Also, does anyone think that with Snow Leopard including an Exchange client,
>> it might be possible to switch from using Office, at least for email?
> I think that's Apple's intent. We'll have to wait and see whether it works
> that way or not.

You might be happier installing Windows and using Outlook on your Mac.As far
as Apple's exchange, it will probably pale in comparison.

--
Diane

Ed,

Thank you so much for your fast and comprehensive response!

I have gone through all of your suggestions:

Use forward as an attachment: thank you!! Not quite as effective as just forwarding the HTML in terms of getting peoples' attention, but it works!!

Pasting HTML: Indeed and I am either PDF'ing or editing – both a bit quicker than going the Word route, but how could Microsoft, in 2008, and for the Mac to boot, come out with an application that is not HTML compatible? And deal with the initial coding errors by simply removing the last vestiges of compatibility rather than fixing the underlying issue?

iPhone sent issue: best I know (or rather what I read), ActiveSync had a bug from day one relating to message headers that Microsoft never corrected, but they got around the issue by compensating in Outlook. Feel free to correct the record on this! Just FYI, until recently a Sent message originating from an iPhone would read as as much as a page of raw formatting code followed by the message and then followed by more ‘gobbledygook’. A few weeks ago, with one or other maintenance upgrade, messages simply disappeared from my Sent folder. This is a huge issue since I have no easily accessible or searchable record of emails I sent from my iPhone.

Sent column issue after search: I can’t change the header! Mac’s Genius folks said the same as have other, but whereas in Outlook you can actually change the header (not that you would typically want to) in Entourage you can’t, or at least I can’t! I have Entourage laid out with reading pane on the right. View > Column is actually grayed out. If I right click on the column heading (which reads ‘Arrange by: Sent’), my only option is to change ‘arrange by’ to another schema but all emails are still labeled ‘Paul Noble’. What might I be doing wrong? And why anyway would the default, assuming it can be changed, be nonsensical and different to the un-searched ‘To’ which is the logical header for a sent email, just as ‘from’ is for an inbound email? I can’t imagine a circumstance where one could possible want another arrangement. Re using the <‘From’, ‘Starts with’, ‘Filter’> search function, most of my searches (and I do this many times a day) are ‘open’, just looking for a particular reference within my historically received or sent emails such as a client reference. Works wonderfully otherwise and usefully in the InBox where the header is not changed from the logical ‘From’.

Crude text editing: I concede to your grammatical skills, but certainly Word neither capitalizes after i.e. Or e.g., nor green underlines it as a grammatical error. Removing Autocorrect>Capitalize is not a practical solution so I will follow your lead, grammatically speaking. Thank you! BTW, not having highlight (i.e. not being able to choose Word as my text editor) is a real negative. Used it all the time for years highlighting points in emails and attachments.

Saved attachments: thank you for telling me where they are saved to (!), but what I do and did for many years uneventfully I think with Outlook, is click on the attachment to open, edit and then click Save (in Word). No dialog box or error message comes up in Office 2008 and I assumed I was saving the altered attachment (to the email). Indeed in Outlook, best I remember, if one tried to then close the email a dialog box would ask if you wanted to save the changes to the attachment. The email and attachment now seem entirely disassociated. What I would do is then forward on (often back to the recipient) the email with its modified attached Office document. No one ever complained so I assume it worked under Windows!

No Exchange email directory: another huge impediment to normal business operation. I have just shy of 60 employees. Imagine if I had 600 or 6,000! Is there any way to create email recipient groups (e.g. Sales, Marketing, whole company) in Entourage?

Again, thank you for your very prompt and detailed reply.

Diane,

Until recently I had the original Air with 64GB SSD so no space for Windows. I now have the Air with 128GB SSD, so this is an option - though I was rather hoping I would not have to revisit Windows, especially after spending 15 months with Vista.

What is the Windows + Parallels + Office 2007 load approximately? I have 27GB left on my drive and don't want to be near the limit.

Paul

Diane,





Until recently I had the original Air with 64GB SSD so no space for Windows.
I now have the Air with 128GB SSD, so this is an option - though I was
rather hoping I would not have to revisit Windows, especially after spending
15 months with Vista.





What is the Windows + Parallels + Office 2007 load approximately? I have
27GB left on my drive and don't want to be near the limit.





Paul




Whops.

After reading all this, I should have stuck with Outlook under WinXP on my Mac.

Paul
WinXP + VMware Fusion + Office 2007 Ultimate ≈ 6 Go initially. Unfortunately, as a great Win defect, it tends to grow quite fast. above all if you use Outlook, the weight of the email boxes are huge.

So it might reach ≈ 20 Go in no time.

Some advice would be to :
- use alternate Windows XP Release (that can be 500 Mo after installation instead of 3 Go)
- installing Office 2003 instead of 2007 (much more glutton)
- not install all uselesss Office packages

I hope this will help.

Gaston

I'm glad you found my response helpful. Here are a couple of more points:
1. Don't expect Entourage to be a clone of Outlook or Outlook Express. That
was not MS's intent. I believe this was a mistake on their part, but it is
what it is.
2. You can change columns if you put the preview pane on the bottom instead
of on the right. I find this arrangement much easier to use.
3. If I turn Capitalize first letter on (which I normally don't), Entourage
DOES capitalize the word after i.e. unless I put a comma after it. Note
that, since i.e. is short for "that is" and e.g. is short for "for example,"
both should really be followed by a comma. Not only is that better grammar,
but it will also prevent Entourage from capitalizing the next word.

Hope this is helpful.
Ed.

On 12/12/08 1:10 AM ET, "pnoble@officeformac.com" <pnoble DeleteThis @officeformac.com>
wrote:

> Ed,
>
> Thank you so much for your fast and comprehensive response!
>
> I have gone through all of your suggestions:
>
> Use forward as an attachment: thank you!! Not quite as effective as just
> forwarding the HTML in terms of getting peoples' attention, but it works!!
>
> Pasting HTML: Indeed and I am either PDF'ing or editing ­ both a bit quicker
> than going the Word route, but how could Microsoft, in 2008, and for the Mac
> to boot, come out with an application that is not HTML compatible? And deal
> with the initial coding errors by simply removing the last vestiges of
> compatibility rather than fixing the underlying issue?
>
> iPhone sent issue: best I know (or rather what I read), ActiveSync had a bug
> from day one relating to message headers that Microsoft never corrected, but
> they got around the issue by compensating in Outlook. Feel free to correct the
> record on this! Just FYI, until recently a Sent message originating from an
> iPhone would read as as much as a page of raw formatting code followed by the
> message and then followed by more Œgobbledygook¹. A few weeks ago, with one or
> other maintenance upgrade, messages simply disappeared from my Sent folder.
> This is a huge issue since I have no easily accessible or searchable record of
> emails I sent from my iPhone.
>
> Sent column issue after search: I can¹t change the header! Mac¹s Genius folks
> said the same as have other, but whereas in Outlook you can actually change
> the header (not that you would typically want to) in Entourage you can¹t, or
> at least I can¹t! I have Entourage laid out with reading pane on the right.
> View > Column is actually grayed out. If I right click on the column heading
> (which reads ŒArrange by: Sent¹), my only option is to change Œarrange by¹ to
> another schema but all emails are still labeled ŒPaul Noble¹. What might I be
> doing wrong? And why anyway would the default, assuming it can be changed, be
> nonsensical and different to the un-searched ŒTo¹ which is the logical header
> for a sent email, just as Œfrom¹ is for an inbound email? I can¹t imagine a
> circumstance where one could possible want another arrangement. Re using the
> <ŒFrom¹, ŒStarts with¹, ŒFilter¹> search function, most of my searches (and I
> do this many times a day) are Œopen¹, just looking for a particular reference
> within my historically received or sent emails such as a client reference.
> Works wonderfully otherwise and usefully in the InBox where the header is not
> changed from the logical ŒFrom¹.
>
> Crude text editing: I concede to your grammatical skills, but certainly Word
> neither capitalizes after i.e. Or e.g., nor green underlines it as a
> grammatical error. Removing Autocorrect>Capitalize is not a practical solution
> so I will follow your lead, grammatically speaking. Thank you! BTW, not having
> highlight (i.e. not being able to choose Word as my text editor) is a real
> negative. Used it all the time for years highlighting points in emails and
> attachments.
>
> Saved attachments: thank you for telling me where they are saved to (!), but
> what I do and did for many years uneventfully I think with Outlook, is click
> on the attachment to open, edit and then click Save (in Word). No dialog box
> or error message comes up in Office 2008 and I assumed I was saving the
> altered attachment (to the email). Indeed in Outlook, best I remember, if one
> tried to then close the email a dialog box would ask if you wanted to save the
> changes to the attachment. The email and attachment now seem entirely
> disassociated. What I would do is then forward on (often back to the
> recipient) the email with its modified attached Office document. No one ever
> complained so I assume it worked under Windows!
>
> No Exchange email directory: another huge impediment to normal business
> operation. I have just shy of 60 employees. Imagine if I had 600 or 6,000! Is
> there any way to create email recipient groups (e.g. Sales, Marketing, whole
> company) in Entourage?
>
> Again, thank you for your very prompt and detailed reply.

--
Ed Kimball

"pnoble@officeformac.com" wrote:

>
> What is the Windows + Parallels + Office 2007 load approximately? I have 27GB
> left on my drive and don't want to be near the limit.

I haven't installed it myself so will leave the actual comments to users
that have. However, 27 GB is sounding pretty small. You need a minimum of
10% free drive space for virtual memory.

Problems from insufficient RAM and free hard disk space
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq_topic/performance2.html>

I'm not sure what kind of files you have on the Air, but you might consider
moving them to an external drive to free up some space. For example, I
symlink my Movies folder back to my internal drive. If you have a lot of mp3
and/or photos you might consider moving those to an external also. Leave the
actual applications on the Air, but the destination folders can be moved.

I had problems deleting the default Movies folder. When I tried to delete
it, I received "required by the OS" error. I was able to delete the folder
in the terminal and replace it with my symlink.

Change in the Terminal:

sudo rm -r ~/Movies

Then it'll ask for your administrator password.

Hope this helps!

--
Diane

Gaston,

Thank you! It frankly doesn't look very promising especially when one adds Dianne's suggestion to install 4GB of RAM.

I use a gen 2 MacBook Air with 2GB and 128GB SSD - both fixed - and I am determined to stay with this platform since it is a perfectly technology fit for my life and work style. (And I mean perfect!)

Microsoft charges several hundred dollars more (give or take their current fire sale) for an Exchange Server supported addition of Office 2008 and yet the actual support seems rudimentary at best.

ActiveSync is the one real plus for me: no need to use a VPN - my Air acts almost like a giant BlackBerry (OK, iPhone!): instant on, instant email, assuming one has a Wi-Fi connection, until AT&T allows the iPhone to tether.

But on the other hand, speaking of iPhone, simply not being able to see your iPhone sent email in Entourage, period - with this being the fix for being able to see it but with the subject line missing and the text preceded by a page of garbage, is unconscionable.

I get the sense that the Mac Office developer team has descended into Dilbert levels of cynicism because the Mac Office code base just doesn't support what the product is supposed to do. Just my sense. Seems 'lipstick on a pig' marketing it as Office.

How else can one explain actually taking out macro compatibility, removing the last vestiges of HTML compatibility, not having archived mail compatibility, etc.

Oh, well!

Kerry,

Thanks for your input. I too am a refugee from Windows - the last 15 months in Vista hell!

I fortunately don't have another critical application beyond Office that won't run (or run properly) on OS X.

I switched from BlackBerry to iPhone, which gets over the BB/Mac sync issue though it presents its own in terms of Entourage incompatibility.

I am confident that 2009 and Snow Leopard with its Exchange compatibility will prove to be one more step towards redemption!

Paul

> "pnoble@officeformac.com" wrote:
>
> >
> > What is the Windows + Parallels + Office 2007 load approximately? I have 27GB
> > left on my drive and don't want to be near the limit.
>
> I haven't installed it myself so will leave the actual comments to users
> that have. However, 27 GB is sounding pretty small. You need a minimum of
> 10% free drive space for virtual memory.
>
> Problems from insufficient RAM and free hard disk space
>
>
> I'm not sure what kind of files you have on the Air, but you might consider
> moving them to an external drive to free up some space. For example, I
> symlink my Movies folder back to my internal drive. If you have a lot of mp3
> and/or photos you might consider moving those to an external also. Leave the
> actual applications on the Air, but the destination folders can be moved.
>
> I had problems deleting the default Movies folder. When I tried to delete
> it, I received "required by the OS" error. I was able to delete the folder
> in the terminal and replace it with my symlink.
>
> Change in the Terminal:
>
> sudo rm -r ~/Movies
>
> Then it'll ask for your administrator password.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> --
> Diane
>
>

Diane,

I just finished loading all my photos back onto my new MacBook Air after upgrading from the initial 64GB SSD version. I just can't psychologically go back!

Seems like running Office 2007 with 2GB RAM is anyway not advisable.

Paul

In article <59b65fe0.3.TakeThisOut@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>,
pnoble.TakeThisOut@officeformac.com wrote:

> What is the Windows + Parallels + Office 2007 load approximately? I have 27GB
> left on my drive and don't want to be near the limit.

Just a quick note: vmWare Fusion is more stable and more compatible with
Windows hardware devices (USB etc) than Parallels Desktop.

You'll need 2 GB of RAM to comfortably run vmWare Fusion with 1 GB or a
little less dedicated to Windows XP. You'll need 10-20 GB of disk space
for Windows XP, depending on how much space you need available on the
Win XP side of things.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

On 12/13/08 11:06 AM ET, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger.RemoveThis@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <59b65fe0.3.RemoveThis@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>,
> pnoble.RemoveThis@officeformac.com wrote:
>
>> What is the Windows + Parallels + Office 2007 load approximately? I have 27GB
>> left on my drive and don't want to be near the limit.
>
> Just a quick note: vmWare Fusion is more stable and more compatible with
> Windows hardware devices (USB etc) than Parallels Desktop.
>
> You'll need 2 GB of RAM to comfortably run vmWare Fusion with 1 GB or a
> little less dedicated to Windows XP. You'll need 10-20 GB of disk space
> for Windows XP, depending on how much space you need available on the
> Win XP side of things.

The version 4.0 of Parallels that came out recently seems to be more stable
than 3.0 in my limited testing. I haven't really checked it much against USB
devices. VMWare Fusion has definitely received excellent reviews.
--
Ed Kimball

Gaston,





Thank you! It frankly doesn't look very promising especially when one
adds Dianne's suggestion to install 4GB of RAM.





I use a gen 2 MacBook Air with 2GB and 128GB SSD - both fixed - and I
am determined to stay with this platform since it is a perfectly technology
fit for my life and work style. (And I mean perfect!)





Microsoft charges several hundred dollars more (give or take their current
fire sale) for an Exchange Server supported addition of Office 2008 and
yet the actual support seems rudimentary at best.





ActiveSync is the one real plus for me: no need to use a VPN - my Air
acts almost like a giant BlackBerry (OK, iPhone!): instant on, instant
email, assuming one has a Wi-Fi connection, until AT&T allows the iPhone
to tether.





But on the other hand, speaking of iPhone, simply not being able to see
your iPhone sent email in Entourage, period - with this being the fix
for being able to see it but with the subject line missing and the text
preceded by a page of garbage, is unconscionable.





I get the sense that the Mac Office developer team has descended into
Dilbert levels of cynicism because the Mac Office code base just doesn't
support what the product is supposed to do. Just my sense. Seems 'lipstick
on a pig' marketing it as Office.





How else can one explain actually taking out macro compatibility, removing
the last vestiges of HTML compatibility, not having archived mail compatibility,
etc.





Oh, well!




Hi Paul,

Having spent my early youth on Windows XP + Office 2003,
my studies under Mac + Office 2004,
my first pro years in Windows Vista + Office 2003,

then now, turning back to the great Mac OS.

I first used Win XP + Office 2007 under VM Fusion 2 & Boot Camp,
then now, I completely swap to Mac OS + Office 2008 for Mac.

I have to admit Office for windows is almost offering the best tools.
Outlook and Excel have no comparison.
they are much more powerful than their Mac brothers.

I understand your point in running the best tools which will provide the most compatibility with partners.

thus, the best compromised would be to have:
- VM Fusion 2 (a lot more powerful and stable than parallels, it really gives the access to your hardware and doesn't only emulate like parallels)
- Win XP Business (not a retail release, try to get one like this one:
<http://xpcoccinelle.fredisland.net/>
which is a lighten Win XP Business, sorry, it is a french release, i never saw this done with an English release)
- Office 2003 (2007 Ed. only brings Mac-like GUI)
- at least 2GB of RAM memory (3 GB would be great; personnally, I have 4GB Kingston HyperX Memory, and it runs perfect as I'm allocating 2GB for Windows XP under VM Fusion)
- and finally, it will cost you 15 GB of hard drive (including Free space under Windows to run at a normal speed).

the difficult point in having a Win partition, is the fact Win never stops to grow. with all the updates, the patches, the fixes... both for the OS and Office System.

you'll have to clean your win partition as often as you can, and limit the updates (don't install XP SP3, which will cost you hard drive space, and network rules which may block many access compatibilities).

the good thing with the Customed French Release of Win XP business relies in its light weight (less than 1 GB after installation), no need of update, stable, virus free, includes a huge amount of tools...

talking now about smartphones, there is a large amount of vendor choices: nokia, blackberry, HTC, iphone...

the 2 best ones, in terms of Efficiency, Reliability, Autonomy, User-Friendly are:
- HTC (Touch Diamond or Touch Pro)
- Efficient
- iPhone-like UI but not as fluent
- preferably used with Windows
- bad autonomy
- iPhone
- efficient
- perfect UI
- working now good with Exchange servers
- better autonomy

one thing I didn't try is MobileMe by Apple.
I don't know it would help in making your system more compatible with Exchange servers, but it might compensate the small defects of sync compatibility.

I don't know how far it will help you.

Regards,
Gaston

PS: I'm not a geek =)

I would also agree with one of the first posts saying it is a purpose from Microsoft to have developed a "poorer" version of Office for Mac than the original one for Windows.

who wants to lose customers?