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[gentoo-user] depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

 
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Willie Wong

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Since: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: 103



(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:20 am
Post subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: linux>gentoo>user (more info?)

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 04:20:25AM +0200, Penguin Lover Nikos Chantziaras squawked:
> I'm not using -meta packages. Many packages they pulled in was stuff I
> don't wanted (like PIM). I emerged KDE packages one-by-one and went with
> what got pulled in as dependencies.

Uh.. then what exactly were you complaining about? The only thing that
depends on kdebase-startkde is kdebase-meta, at least in a
standard-ish installation of KDE using the meta packages.

Let me put it this way: by not installing the -meta package, you
explicitly say that you think you know better than the kde devs in
what makes a basic, useable, KDE desktop. And now you complain because
your subset of KDE packages does not contain everything you need?

Okay, all jokes aside: since you have particular wants and don't-wants
with regards to the KDE packaging, I really suggest that instead of
keeping all that junk in your world file, that you create your own
overlay and write your own -meta ebuild. My guess is just copying the
kde-meta ebuild and editting the RDEPEND variable to reflect the
actual packages you want will do it.

HTH,

W
--
Bakers trade bread recipes on a knead to know basis.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 745 days, 1:42
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Dale

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Since: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 96



(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:57:22 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>
>> And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this? What
>> difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen? Surely, it
>> doesn't matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong. If a KDE4
>> path would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing
>> you care about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin.
>>
>
> Because /usr/bin will always be in your PATH, so even if you are running a
> KDE 3 session, KDE4 programs will be loaded. By keeping the separate,not
> only from one another but also from other programs, you can ensure that
> your PATH includes only KDE3 or KDE4 programs.
>
>
>

So to clarify a bit more, for me at least. If you login to KDE 3.5 then
/usr/kde/3.5/bin is in your path but not /usr/kde/kde/4.*. The same
could be said in the reverse I assume?

If you don't use the flag and login to KDE 3.5 then all the KDE 4.*
stuff is in your path and anytime you try to open a KDE 3.5 app, it sees
the KDE 4.* apps first? Correct? If it is, I can only imagine how
confused a computer would be.

I wonder if a person could change the order that those paths are
searched? Could you put in a config file somewhere to search one first
then the others or would that just not work well in the reverse situation?

I think I am out of cents again. o~o I'm starting to see why this is
so confusing to a computer now. Whew !

Dale

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Nikos Chantziaras

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:40 pm
Post subject: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:57:22 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>
>>> And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this? What
>>> difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen? Surely, it
>>> doesn't matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong. If a KDE4
>>> path would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing
>>> you care about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin.
>>>
>> Because /usr/bin will always be in your PATH, so even if you are running a
>> KDE 3 session, KDE4 programs will be loaded. By keeping the separate,not
>> only from one another but also from other programs, you can ensure that
>> your PATH includes only KDE3 or KDE4 programs.
>
> So to clarify a bit more, for me at least. If you login to KDE 3.5 then
> /usr/kde/3.5/bin is in your path but not /usr/kde/kde/4.*. The same
> could be said in the reverse I assume?
>
> If you don't use the flag and login to KDE 3.5 then all the KDE 4.*
> stuff is in your path and anytime you try to open a KDE 3.5 app, it sees
> the KDE 4.* apps first? Correct? If it is, I can only imagine how
> confused a computer would be.
>
> I wonder if a person could change the order that those paths are
> searched? Could you put in a config file somewhere to search one first
> then the others or would that just not work well in the reverse situation?

That's already the case. /usr/bin comes first in KDE4 sessions, while
/usr/kde/3.5/bin is first in KDE 3 sessions. Same goes for LDPATH.
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Dale

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Since: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 96



(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:50 pm
Post subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:57:22 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>> And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this? What
>>> difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen? Surely, it
>>> doesn't matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong. If a KDE4
>>> path would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing
>>> you care about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin.
>>
>> Because /usr/bin will always be in your PATH, so even if you are
>> running a
>> KDE 3 session, KDE4 programs will be loaded.
>
> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>
>
>

Then why doesn't it work then? I'm confused. I just know that I have
already put the USE flag in mine for when KDE 4 goes stable and starts
moving in. I like having KDE in the place it has always been since it
has worked for me so far.

Yes, I read the arguments made on -dev a while ago. It didn't make
sense then and it still doesn't.

Dale

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Nikos Chantziaras

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:50 pm
Post subject: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:57:22 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this? What
>> difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen? Surely, it
>> doesn't matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong. If a KDE4
>> path would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing
>> you care about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin.
>
> Because /usr/bin will always be in your PATH, so even if you are running a
> KDE 3 session, KDE4 programs will be loaded.

Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and last
in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
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Nikos Chantziaras

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:10 pm
Post subject: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dale wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:57:22 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>>> And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this? What
>>>> difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen? Surely, it
>>>> doesn't matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong. If a KDE4
>>>> path would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing
>>>> you care about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin.
>>> Because /usr/bin will always be in your PATH, so even if you are
>>> running a
>>> KDE 3 session, KDE4 programs will be loaded.
>> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
>> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>
> Then why doesn't it work then?

It works. It's just that this thread has gone off topic Razz
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Nikos Chantziaras

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:10 pm
Post subject: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:37:08 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>>> Because /usr/bin will always be in your PATH, so even if you are
>>> running a KDE 3 session, KDE4 programs will be loaded.
>> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
>> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>
> Not here
>
> % echo $PATH
> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/qt/3/bin:/home/nelz/bin

Maybe because you *do* use kdeprefix. Maybe it's better without it,
like here, where it works ;D
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Nikos Chantziaras

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:00 pm
Post subject: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:04:06 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>>>> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
>>>> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>>> Not here
>>>
>>> % echo $PATH
>>> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/qt/3/bin:/home/nelz/bin
>> Maybe because you *do* use kdeprefix. Maybe it's better without it,
>> like here, where it works ;D
>
> I get the same order on this computer, which does not have KDE4.

That's because you don't have it.

`echo $PATH` in a KDE3 session:

/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin

`echo $PATH` in a KDE4 session:

/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin

So can we all agree now that the kdeprefix USE flag doesn't matter the
least with KDE3+KDE4 and that it's only there to support multiple
installations of KDE4? (Like KDE 4.0.x + 4.1.x at the same time.)
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Dale

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Since: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 96



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:04:06 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>>>> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
>>>>> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>>>> Not here
>>>>
>>>> % echo $PATH
>>>> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/qt/3/bin:/home/nelz/bin
>>>
>>> Maybe because you *do* use kdeprefix. Maybe it's better without it,
>>> like here, where it works ;D
>>
>> I get the same order on this computer, which does not have KDE4.
>
> That's because you don't have it.
>
> `echo $PATH` in a KDE3 session:
>
> /usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin
>
>
> `echo $PATH` in a KDE4 session:
>
> /usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin
>
>
> So can we all agree now that the kdeprefix USE flag doesn't matter the
> least with KDE3+KDE4 and that it's only there to support multiple
> installations of KDE4? (Like KDE 4.0.x + 4.1.x at the same time.)
>
>
>

root@smoker / # euse -i kdeprefix
global use flags (searching: kdeprefix)
************************************************************
[+ C ] kdeprefix - Makes a KDE prefixed install into /usr/kde/${SLOT}
if enabled or into /usr (FHS compatible) otherwise

local use flags (searching: kdeprefix)
************************************************************
no matching entries found
root@smoker / #

Dale

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Nikos Chantziaras

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 289



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:00 pm
Post subject: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dale wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:04:06 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
>>>>>> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>>>>> Not here
>>>>>
>>>>> % echo $PATH
>>>>> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/qt/3/bin:/home/nelz/bin
>>>> Maybe because you *do* use kdeprefix. Maybe it's better without it,
>>>> like here, where it works ;D
>>> I get the same order on this computer, which does not have KDE4.
>> That's because you don't have it.
>>
>> `echo $PATH` in a KDE3 session:
>>
>> /usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin
>>
>>
>> `echo $PATH` in a KDE4 session:
>>
>> /usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin
>>
>>
>> So can we all agree now that the kdeprefix USE flag doesn't matter the
>> least with KDE3+KDE4 and that it's only there to support multiple
>> installations of KDE4? (Like KDE 4.0.x + 4.1.x at the same time.)
>>
>>
>>
>
> root@smoker / # euse -i kdeprefix
> global use flags (searching: kdeprefix)
> ************************************************************
> [+ C ] kdeprefix - Makes a KDE prefixed install into /usr/kde/${SLOT}
> if enabled or into /usr (FHS compatible) otherwise
>
> local use flags (searching: kdeprefix)
> ************************************************************
> no matching entries found
> root@smoker / #

Here's what it should say:

[+ C ] kdeprefix - Makes a KDE 4 prefixed install into [...]

How I know? I don't use kdeprefix and my KDE 3 is installed in
/usr/kde/3.5 Wink

Also, if you care to look you'll see that kdeprefix is not used by any
KDE3 ebuild.
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Dale

External


Since: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 96



(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Dale wrote:
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:04:06 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would they? /usr/kde/3.5/bin comes first in KDE 3 sessions and
>>>>>>> last in KDE 4 sessions. There's no problem at all.
>>>>>> Not here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> % echo $PATH
>>>>>> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/qt/3/bin:/home/nelz/bin
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe because you *do* use kdeprefix. Maybe it's better without it,
>>>>> like here, where it works ;D
>>>> I get the same order on this computer, which does not have KDE4.
>>> That's because you don't have it.
>>>
>>> `echo $PATH` in a KDE3 session:
>>>
>>> /usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> `echo $PATH` in a KDE4 session:
>>>
>>> /usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So can we all agree now that the kdeprefix USE flag doesn't matter the
>>> least with KDE3+KDE4 and that it's only there to support multiple
>>> installations of KDE4? (Like KDE 4.0.x + 4.1.x at the same time.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> root@smoker / # euse -i kdeprefix
>> global use flags (searching: kdeprefix)
>> ************************************************************
>> [+ C ] kdeprefix - Makes a KDE prefixed install into /usr/kde/${SLOT}
>> if enabled or into /usr (FHS compatible) otherwise
>>
>> local use flags (searching: kdeprefix)
>> ************************************************************
>> no matching entries found
>> root@smoker / #
>
> Here's what it should say:
>
> [+ C ] kdeprefix - Makes a KDE 4 prefixed install into [...]
>
> How I know? I don't use kdeprefix and my KDE 3 is installed in
> /usr/kde/3.5 Wink
>
> Also, if you care to look you'll see that kdeprefix is not used by any
> KDE3 ebuild.
>
>
>

I subscribe to the -dev thread and if I recall correctly, KDE 3.5
installs into /usr/kde/3.5 whether kdeprefix is set or not. KDE 3.5 and
earlier always has. However, KDE 4.0 has changed and requires that flag
if you want KDE 4.* installed in /usr/kde/4.*.

So, if you are not using KDE 4.*, then it has no effect yet. If you
have it set and have both KDE 3.5 and KDE 4.0, then it will install KDE
3.5 in /usr/kde/3.5 and KDE 4.0 in /usr/kde/4.*. If you have both KDE
3.5 and KDE 4.* and it is not set, it installs KDE 3.5 in /usr/kde/3.5
and KDE 4.* in /usr.

Since the people that do the ebuilds is the same people that wrote what
the flag does, I like how you want to change what it means. If they
don't know what the flag does, nobody else likely will either. If you
disagree with what it says, go to -dev and tell them to change it or
file a bug report.

Dale

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