[gentoo-user] Thanks and bye for now

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 27 December 2008 01:19:11 Mark Kirkwood wrote:
>
>> Due to a new work situation where extensive use is made of Debian, I
>> feel the need to have a Debian-based play server. This unfortunately
>> means my trusty Gentoo box is to be sacrificed
>>
>> Thanks for the help I have received over the last few years (think I
>> joined in 2005). I have enjoyed being part of the Gentoo community, and
>> hope to be back alter sometime.
>>
>
> Good luck with the new job.
>
> But don't feel like you have to leave here just because you now use Debian
> more This is one of the most knowledgeable and helpful user groups
> around, and apart from portage, baselayout and a few other odd things, pretty
> much every question you could ask here can be applicable everywhere else.
>
>
>

Watch him slowly convert them over to Gentoo. o_O Then he'll be back
and asking who has a server like theirs. lol

Good luck dude!!

Dale

Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>> On Saturday 27 December 2008 01:19:11 Mark Kirkwood wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Due to a new work situation where extensive use is made of Debian, I
>>> feel the need to have a Debian-based play server. This unfortunately
>>> means my trusty Gentoo box is to be sacrificed
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help I have received over the last few years (think I
>>> joined in 2005). I have enjoyed being part of the Gentoo community, and
>>> hope to be back alter sometime.
>>>
>>>
>> Good luck with the new job.
>>
>> But don't feel like you have to leave here just because you now use Debian
>> more This is one of the most knowledgeable and helpful user groups
>> around, and apart from portage, baselayout and a few other odd things, pretty
>> much every question you could ask here can be applicable everywhere else.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Watch him slowly convert them over to Gentoo. o_O Then he'll be back
> and asking who has a server like theirs. lol
>
> Good luck dude!!
>
>
LOL, thanks for the nice thoughts guys - much appreciated!

Mark

James wrote:
> Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>> Watch him slowly convert them over to Gentoo. o_O Then he'll be back
>> and asking who has a server like theirs. lol
>
> Thats a FACT! Many workstation users never discover the joy
> of running gentoo based servers. They are really easy to maintain.
>
> If more folks ran gentoo based servers, we'd have 10x the user base,
> methinks....
>
> One of the largest group to gentoo is formerly frustrated Debian
> users.......
>
>
> He'll be back.

I run Debian on my server because it's "set and forget". With Gentoo at
home, I have to take good care of it to keep it going. Another reason I
didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming
the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags
in Counter-Strike

On Saturday December 27 2008 15:14:26 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> I run Debian on my server because it's "set and forget". With Gentoo at
> home, I have to take good care of it to keep it going.

Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and
forget" your Gentoo boxes?

> Another reason I
> didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming
> the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags
> in Counter-Strike

set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf


Best regards,
Norberto

Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:


> Watch him slowly convert them over to Gentoo. o_O Then he'll be back
> and asking who has a server like theirs. lol

Thats a FACT! Many workstation users never discover the joy
of running gentoo based servers. They are really easy to maintain.

If more folks ran gentoo based servers, we'd have 10x the user base,
methinks....

One of the largest group to gentoo is formerly frustrated Debian
users.......


He'll be back.



James

Norberto Bensa wrote:
> On Saturday December 27 2008 15:14:26 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> I run Debian on my server because it's "set and forget". With Gentoo at
>> home, I have to take good care of it to keep it going.
>
> Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and
> forget" your Gentoo boxes?

Gentoo is difficult to install. Also, if it's left un-updated for
longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. I guess
that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due
to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem.


>> Another reason I
>> didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming
>> the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags
>> in Counter-Strike
>
> set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf

I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one OK, I'll also say that it
doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19.

Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 27 December 2008, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> Norberto Bensa wrote:
>
>>> Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and
>>> forget" your Gentoo boxes?
>> Gentoo is difficult to install.
>
> Well, it's not really difficult - but it takes awfully longer than running a
> binary distro install.

That's why I do it at home For the servers, less work is better
(yes, I'm ashamed of this, but not ashamed enough to keep me from doing
it ;D)


>> I guess
>> that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due
>> to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem.
>
> Hmm ... so then, how would you upgrade from one version of Debian to another?
> I tried to do something like that with Ubuntu and the darn thing never booted
> again! Had to wipe the drive clean and reinstall.

On Debian, I simply changed all the string in /etc/apt/sources.list from
"etch" to "lenny" and ran "aptitude dist-update". I crossed my fingers.
I was relieved to see it just worked. I updated from Etch to Lenny in
10 minutes


>>>> Another reason I
>>>> didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming
>>>> the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags
>>>> in Counter-Strike
>>> set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf
>> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one OK, I'll also say that it
>> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19.
>
> Is that measurable?

On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core E6600.DeleteThis@3.33Ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.

With all that being said, I prefer Gentoo of course. I've been through
Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva/Mandrake, CentOS, Fedora and
openSUSE on my desktop PC. I finally settled with Gentoo; it's beats
all of 'em. But it needs more attention to keep it healthy and clean.
So I don't use it for the servers. More free time for me that way

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
> On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
> skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core E6600.DeleteThis@3.33Ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.
>

I have to use version 2.6.23-gentoo-r8 for my kernel or it does the same
thing. Someone mentioned that it is a setting in the kernel for one of
the new features. At some point I plan to post the info here and try to
figure out what setting I should use but just haven't done it yet.

The only other thing I can think of is the drives being busy. I think
they have ionice now too.

Dale

Quoting Nikos Chantziaras <realnc.DeleteThis@arcor.de>:

>> Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just
>> "set and forget" your Gentoo boxes?
>
> Gentoo is difficult to install.

For who? And BTW, that doesn't answer the question.


> Also, if it's left un-updated for
> longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update

Maybe, but only if you go from abi-1 to abi-2. For example, you can't
expect moving from gcc-2 to gcc-3 to gcc-4 being painless.


> . I guess
> that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand,
> due to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem.

I can't move debian from tomato to lenny without problems.


>> set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf
>
> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one OK, I'll also say that it
> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19.

Then something is wrong with your box or it isn't powerful enough.
Works perfectly in mine.

Bye

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Dale wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
>> skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core E6600.RemoveThis@3.33Ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.
>>
>
> I have to use version 2.6.23-gentoo-r8 for my kernel or it does the same
> thing. Someone mentioned that it is a setting in the kernel for one of
> the new features. At some point I plan to post the info here and try to
> figure out what setting I should use but just haven't done it yet.
>
> The only other thing I can think of is the drives being busy. I think
> they have ionice now too.

I have this in my make.conf:

PORTAGE_IONICE_COMMAND="ionice -c 3 -p \${PID}"

Helped a bit. But still the GUI (KDE 3.5.10) gets pretty laggy. Just a
few hours ago I updated to gcc-4.3.2-r1. Even with nice 19 and ionice
3, lag is there.

I hope someone finds the magic button in the kernel config to fix that

Quoting Nikos Chantziaras <realnc DeleteThis @arcor.de>:

> On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
> skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core E6600 DeleteThis @3.33Ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.

Just like me, but I have it set to default clock: 2.4GHz. Beyond that,
it gets somewhat funny :-/

Are you sure your HDs run with DMA enabled? SATA shouldn't have this
problem, but as technology gets cheaper, you never know


>
> With all that being said, I prefer Gentoo of course. I've been through
> Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva/Mandrake, CentOS, Fedora and
> openSUSE on my desktop PC.

I prefer Linux in all its forms


Regards,
Norberto

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Norberto Bensa wrote:
> Quoting Nikos Chantziaras <realnc.RemoveThis@arcor.de>:
>
>> On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
>> skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core E6600.RemoveThis@3.33Ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.
>
> Just like me, but I have it set to default clock: 2.4GHz. Beyond that,
> it gets somewhat funny :-/

I bought a CPU cooler the size of skyscraper though; it barely fits in
the tower ;P At stock 2.4GHz, it's a bit more laggy with heavy load.


> Are you sure your HDs run with DMA enabled? SATA shouldn't have this
> problem, but as technology gets cheaper, you never know

It's SATA.

It appears that the kernel gets slower and slower and more "laggy" on
desktops with every release. Servers seem to get happier though. I
hope they don't totally abandon the desktop at some point

Norberto Bensa wrote:
> Quoting Nikos Chantziaras <realnc RemoveThis @arcor.de>:
>
>>> Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set
>>> and forget" your Gentoo boxes?
>>
>> Gentoo is difficult to install.
>
> For who? And BTW, that doesn't answer the question.

Huh? I answered it right next in the next phrase.


>> Also, if it's left un-updated for
>> longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update
>
> Maybe, but only if you go from abi-1 to abi-2. For example, you can't
> expect moving from gcc-2 to gcc-3 to gcc-4 being painless.

Indeed.


>> . I guess
>> that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand,
>> due to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem.
>
> I can't move debian from tomato to lenny without problems.

I was lucky though and it worked. Anyway, that's not the point.


>>> set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf
>>
>> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one OK, I'll also say that it
>> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19.
>
> Then something is wrong with your box or it isn't powerful enough.

It isn't.


> Works perfectly in mine.

Same here (at home.)