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External
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Posts: 68
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:37 pm
Post subject: Backup & Restore
Archived from groups: linux>redhat (more info?)
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What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
dump utility is not recommended on Linux? Is there any way to create
some kind of “full system backup”? I mean a backup that not only
backup my data but also the Linux packages installed in such a way
that I can restore the “complete” system without reinstalling the OS
and applications first? Will this full system backup be capable of
backing up database systems like mysql? |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 08/29/2008 10:37 PM, Artificer sent:
> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
> dump utility is not recommended on Linux? Is there any way to create
> some kind of “full system backup”? I mean a backup that not only
> backup my data but also the Linux packages installed in such a way
> that I can restore the “complete” system without reinstalling the OS
> and applications first? Will this full system backup be capable of
> backing up database systems like mysql?
Hello Artificer:
I think within a few hours, you're going to get differing opinions from
many. Perhaps what best describes your request, is information having
to do with "Bare Metal Recovery". Total solutions might include those
that are based on "dd" and anything that reads and writes at the sector
level. Of course sector level reads/writes don't know or care what
MySQL, the OS, or data and applications are.
Does your server situation allow downtime such that a total image can be
taken of an operation _not_ handling transactions? Is your server based
on a RAID storage system? If not, is it viable to start looking at one?
Have you looked into "Ghost4Linux"? What media would you be storing
your backups to? Are you familiar with rsync based backups? Would you
be able to look into commercial solutions? Try Googling for "Bare Metal
Recovery" and afterwards maybe your questions will have expanded.
Best wishes to you.
--
1PW
@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t] |
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External
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Posts: 68
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Aug 30, 7:00 am, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nka....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1PW wrote:
> > On 08/29/2008 10:37 PM, Artificer sent:
> >> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
> >> dump utility is not recommended on Linux? Is there any way to create
> >> some kind of “full system backup”? I mean a backup that not only
> >> backup my data but also the Linux packages installed in such a way
> >> that I can restore the “complete” system without reinstalling the OS
> >> and applications first? Will this full system backup be capable of
> >> backing up database systems like mysql?
>
> > Hello Artificer:
>
> > I think within a few hours, you're going to get differing opinions from
> > many. Perhaps what best describes your request, is information having
> > to do with "Bare Metal Recovery". Total solutions might include those
> > that are based on "dd" and anything that reads and writes at the sector
> > level. Of course sector level reads/writes don't know or care what
> > MySQL, the OS, or data and applications are.
>
> > Does your server situation allow downtime such that a total image can be
> > taken of an operation _not_ handling transactions? Is your server based
> > on a RAID storage system? If not, is it viable to start looking at one?
> > Have you looked into "Ghost4Linux"? What media would you be storing
> > your backups to? Are you familiar with rsync based backups? Would you
> > be able to look into commercial solutions? Try Googling for "Bare Metal
> > Recovery" and afterwards maybe your questions will have expanded.
>
> > Best wishes to you.
>
> All that's good, but not enough information for him. 'dump' and 'dd' talk
> directly to the disk: because Linux hasn't necessarily transferred data to the
> disk, but may still have it paged out in RAM, this can present a corrupted
> filesystem or database if the timing of the dump is even a little bit off with
> database operations or filesystem changes. So 'dump' and 'dd' are only good
> for locked turn, turned-off copies of Linux.
>
> Amanda is one of the most popular tools: it's built into every major Linux
> distribution, it's flexible, it's powerful, and it's simple in the tools it
> uses. And you can *ALWAYS* read the tapes later, because it's using GNU-tar as
> it's basic tape-writing tool. It's good freeware, and if you want commercial
> support and accountability for it, you can contact zmanda.com for it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Won't Amanda gonna have the same limitations as 'dump' and 'dd'? |
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External
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Posts: 68
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:29 am
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Aug 30, 3:25 am, 1PW <barcrnahgjuvf... RemoveThis @nby.pbz> wrote:
> On 08/29/2008 10:37 PM, Artificer sent:
>
> > What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
> > dump utility is not recommended on Linux? Is there any way to create
> > some kind of “full system backup”? I mean a backup that not only
> > backup my data but also the Linux packages installed in such a way
> > that I can restore the “complete” system without reinstalling the OS
> > and applications first? Will this full system backup be capable of
> > backing up database systems like mysql?
>
> Hello Artificer:
>
> I think within a few hours, you're going to get differing opinions from
> many. Perhaps what best describes your request, is information having
> to do with "Bare Metal Recovery". Total solutions might include those
> that are based on "dd" and anything that reads and writes at the sector
> level. Of course sector level reads/writes don't know or care what
> MySQL, the OS, or data and applications are.
>
> Does your server situation allow downtime such that a total image can be
> taken of an operation _not_ handling transactions? Is your server based
> on a RAID storage system? If not, is it viable to start looking at one?
> Have you looked into "Ghost4Linux"? What media would you be storing
> your backups to? Are you familiar with rsync based backups? Would you
> be able to look into commercial solutions? Try Googling for "Bare Metal
> Recovery" and afterwards maybe your questions will have expanded.
>
> Best wishes to you.
>
> --
> 1PW
>
> @?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
At this point I would prefer an open source solution! In order to
clone a disk using dd do I have to somekind of 'rescue disk'? will dd
be able to clone a windows NTFS disk? |
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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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1PW wrote:
> On 08/29/2008 10:37 PM, Artificer sent:
>> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
>> dump utility is not recommended on Linux? Is there any way to create
>> some kind of “full system backup”? I mean a backup that not only
>> backup my data but also the Linux packages installed in such a way
>> that I can restore the “complete” system without reinstalling the OS
>> and applications first? Will this full system backup be capable of
>> backing up database systems like mysql?
>
> Hello Artificer:
>
> I think within a few hours, you're going to get differing opinions from
> many. Perhaps what best describes your request, is information having
> to do with "Bare Metal Recovery". Total solutions might include those
> that are based on "dd" and anything that reads and writes at the sector
> level. Of course sector level reads/writes don't know or care what
> MySQL, the OS, or data and applications are.
>
> Does your server situation allow downtime such that a total image can be
> taken of an operation _not_ handling transactions? Is your server based
> on a RAID storage system? If not, is it viable to start looking at one?
> Have you looked into "Ghost4Linux"? What media would you be storing
> your backups to? Are you familiar with rsync based backups? Would you
> be able to look into commercial solutions? Try Googling for "Bare Metal
> Recovery" and afterwards maybe your questions will have expanded.
>
> Best wishes to you.
All that's good, but not enough information for him. 'dump' and 'dd' talk
directly to the disk: because Linux hasn't necessarily transferred data to the
disk, but may still have it paged out in RAM, this can present a corrupted
filesystem or database if the timing of the dump is even a little bit off with
database operations or filesystem changes. So 'dump' and 'dd' are only good
for locked turn, turned-off copies of Linux.
Amanda is one of the most popular tools: it's built into every major Linux
distribution, it's flexible, it's powerful, and it's simple in the tools it
uses. And you can *ALWAYS* read the tapes later, because it's using GNU-tar as
it's basic tape-writing tool. It's good freeware, and if you want commercial
support and accountability for it, you can contact zmanda.com for it. |
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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Artificer wrote:
> On Aug 30, 7:00 am, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nka... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1PW wrote:
>> Amanda is one of the most popular tools: it's built into every major Linux
>> distribution, it's flexible, it's powerful, and it's simple in the tools it
>> uses. And you can *ALWAYS* read the tapes later, because it's using GNU-tar as
>> it's basic tape-writing tool. It's good freeware, and if you want commercial
>> support and accountability for it, you can contact zmanda.com for it.-
>
> Won't Amanda gonna have the same limitations as 'dump' and 'dd'?
Nope. See above: Amanda mostly uses GNU-tar, which talks to the file system
seen by the user, not to the raw disk. You still have the issue of getting
accurate dumps of databases, which needs to be an 'atomic' operation. But
that's what user-land tools that dump databases or snapshot them are for. |
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External
Since: Jul 28, 2006
Posts: 113
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-08-30, Artificer <eliezerfigueroa RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
> dump utility is not recommended on Linux?
The problem with dump on linux is that unlike, say FreeBSD, linux' dump
does not have a built-in means of making a filesystem snapshot to backup
a live filesystem. If you're using lvm on linux you can accomplish the
same thing as FreeBSD dump's "-L" switch by using "lvcreate" to make a
snapshot volume for dump to use, and "lvremove" to clear it after the
dump is complete.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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John Thompson wrote:
> On 2008-08-30, Artificer <eliezerfigueroa DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
>> dump utility is not recommended on Linux?
>
> The problem with dump on linux is that unlike, say FreeBSD, linux' dump
> does not have a built-in means of making a filesystem snapshot to backup
> a live filesystem. If you're using lvm on linux you can accomplish the
> same thing as FreeBSD dump's "-L" switch by using "lvcreate" to make a
> snapshot volume for dump to use, and "lvremove" to clear it after the
> dump is complete.
>
No, you can't. Linux does a great deal of paging: it will page to the extent
of available RAM. Writing such data to disk *cannot* be relied on, unless you
do something like locking the databases and running 'sync' to force changes to
be written to disk. This flaw of the 'dump' command is old, and there is no
complete solution for most file-based tools. |
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External
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Posts: 68
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Aug 31, 3:13 pm, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nka....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> John Thompson wrote:
> > On 2008-08-30, Artificer <eliezerfigue....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
> >> dump utility is not recommended on Linux?
>
> > The problem with dump on linux is that unlike, say FreeBSD, linux' dump
> > does not have a built-in means of making a filesystem snapshot to backup
> > a live filesystem. If you're using lvm on linux you can accomplish the
> > same thing as FreeBSD dump's "-L" switch by using "lvcreate" to make a
> > snapshot volume for dump to use, and "lvremove" to clear it after the
> > dump is complete.
>
> No, you can't. Linux does a great deal of paging: it will page to the extent
> of available RAM. Writing such data to disk *cannot* be relied on, unless you
> do something like locking the databases and running 'sync' to force changes to
> be written to disk. This flaw of the 'dump' command is old, and there is no
> complete solution for most file-based tools.
So basically what your saying is that the best backup tool for linux
is gnu tar + the tools provided on DBRMS? Can I do a something similar
like a "bare metal" restore by installing a new copy of the linux
distro that I am using and after that booting the new computer with a
rescue disk and untar my full disk backup on top of it? Of course
database restore will be done after the untar and reboot!
Did I undestand wrong or your trying to say that GNU tar will "see"
the filesystem not as it is on disk but as it should be seen from a
user perspective? |
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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Artificer wrote:
> On Aug 31, 3:13 pm, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nka... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> John Thompson wrote:
>>> On 2008-08-30, Artificer <eliezerfigue... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
>>>> dump utility is not recommended on Linux?
>>> The problem with dump on linux is that unlike, say FreeBSD, linux' dump
>>> does not have a built-in means of making a filesystem snapshot to backup
>>> a live filesystem. If you're using lvm on linux you can accomplish the
>>> same thing as FreeBSD dump's "-L" switch by using "lvcreate" to make a
>>> snapshot volume for dump to use, and "lvremove" to clear it after the
>>> dump is complete.
>> No, you can't. Linux does a great deal of paging: it will page to the extent
>> of available RAM. Writing such data to disk *cannot* be relied on, unless you
>> do something like locking the databases and running 'sync' to force changes to
>> be written to disk. This flaw of the 'dump' command is old, and there is no
>> complete solution for most file-based tools.
>
> So basically what your saying is that the best backup tool for linux
> is gnu tar + the tools provided on DBRMS? Can I do a something similar
> like a "bare metal" restore by installing a new copy of the linux
> distro that I am using and after that booting the new computer with a
> rescue disk and untar my full disk backup on top of it? Of course
> database restore will be done after the untar and reboot!
Well, there are other possibilities. For example, I find rsync to a backup
server with plenty of disk, preferably using rsnapshot, to be very successful.
Then I write my tapes from that server.
There's also LVM 'snapshots', that can snapshot a filesystem: if you can sync
your databases and write them to disk, take your snapshot, and mount and
backup from the snapshot, or run 'dump' or 'dd' only against the snapshot,
that can work as well.
> Did I undestand wrong or your trying to say that GNU tar will "see"
> the filesystem not as it is on disk but as it should be seen from a
> user perspective?
That is exactly right. Linux these days keeps a lot of material paged into
available RAM, to improve performance. But it means that you're uncertain of
when it will be committed to disk. That makes disk imaging tools awkward. |
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External
Since: Jan 25, 2008
Posts: 19
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Backup & Restore [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I use dump and restore to do whole sale backups of any particular
ext2/ext3 partition. They are easy to use, preserve ALL files and work
quickly. Restores interactive mode is useful for picking select files
to restore.
The only catch is, you can't/shouldn't run dump on a live filesystem.
It should be unmounted when you dump it OR mounted read only. Using
dump is only an issue if you have to backup a filesystem while mounted
read/write. Dump is perfectly good for unmounted/read only filesystems.
For instance, to backup my root partition, I issue this commant first
mount / -o ro,remount
Then run dump then
mount / -o rw,remount
The real advantage is that its FAST and comprehensive.
Artificer wrote:
> What is the most common way to backup a Linux server? Is true that the
> dump utility is not recommended on Linux? Is there any way to create
> some kind of “full system backup”? I mean a backup that not only
> backup my data but also the Linux packages installed in such a way
> that I can restore the “complete” system without reinstalling the OS
> and applications first? Will this full system backup be capable of
> backing up database systems like mysql? |
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