What is the trick to learning to fly a helicopter?

"Peter Olcott" <NoSpam.RemoveThis@SeeScreen.com> wrote in message
news:EMt%k.6931$qp2.5011@newsfe25.iad...
>I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
> Microsoft flight simulator
> GE Real Flight
> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
> do to begin improving my skills?

I can only comment on MS FS9. First you need to reduce the "General" slider
in the Realism settings from hard down to about 75 to 80%. That will help a
lot and according to the experts at Hovercontrol is more realistic. Two
other important things. First, if you don't already know, find out how a
helicopter works. This is essential to understanding what the various
control inputs will do. Secondly, make small control inputs and try to keep
"ahead of the aircraft" - this goes back to the first point.

I also recommend you go to www.hovercontrol.com download their lessons and
follow them. That worked for me and enabled me to enjoy flying the Bell 206
Jetranger. HTH.

--
Iain
Rugby, UK

Peter Olcott wrote:
> I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
> Microsoft flight simulator
> GE Real Flight
> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
> do to begin improving my skills?

Ian and Danny have given you some excellent advice.

The way I learnt to handle these machines was to get some altitude, then
always keep the stick slightly forward, so that I was always moving
forward; fast to start with, then gradually slowing down. The VERY LAST
thing I learnt, was how to hover. Then it was just a case of practice,
practice and then more practice. Not very RL, I know, but this is a
simulator after all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhQurZKHMfs

And just for fun......


http://flightsimtube.com/video-flight_simulator_2004-79090-chinooks
--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK.
Fly it until the last piece stops moving.

I think I detected some fowl language in that youtube video, mike.
Danny


"MikeW" <MikeW DeleteThis @spammenot.con> wrote in message
news:LvOdnbHE6t62D6PUnZ2dnUVZ8uednZ2d@bt.com...
> Peter Olcott wrote:
>> I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
>> Microsoft flight simulator
>> GE Real Flight
>> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
>> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
>> do to begin improving my skills?
>
> Ian and Danny have given you some excellent advice.
>
> The way I learnt to handle these machines was to get some altitude, then
> always keep the stick slightly forward, so that I was always moving
> forward; fast to start with, then gradually slowing down. The VERY LAST
> thing I learnt, was how to hover. Then it was just a case of practice,
> practice and then more practice. Not very RL, I know, but this is a
> simulator after all!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhQurZKHMfs
>
> And just for fun......
>
>
> http://flightsimtube.com/video-flight_simulator_2004-79090-chinooks
> --
> MikeW
> Shrewsbury, UK.
> Fly it until the last piece stops moving.
>

Op Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:25:42 -0500 schreef Danny:

> In FS9 or FS10, slide the REALISM SETTINGS slider to EASY. Not much need
> to even try it unless you change the realism settings in my opinion. Some
> will suggest you go "most of the way toward EASY" but you gotta get it off
> HARD in order to have any success. I recommend all the way to EASY then as
> you improve, move about a 10% to 20% to the right.
>
> Go to www.hovercontrol.com and look for a HUD in the FILE DOWNLOADS. The
> heads up display (HUD) will help keep you spatially oriented, or at least it
> works great for me. I found the Bell 206 Jet Ranger to be easier than the
> Robinson. Hours of practice. Don't get frustrated. I fly helos probably
> 1/2 the time or greater and love them. A larger, heavier helo, such as the
> Alphasim Pavelow, is easy to fly, also. But the EH101 that is in FS10
> Acceleration, is not so easy.
> Danny

I remember that I tried to land on a helipad in Tokio to pick up some
passengers, one of the missions in FSX. Me and a friend tried over an hour
to land there properly but we simply didn't succeed. Partly because we were
ROFL because the two passengers kept waiting patiently, no matter how close
we were from hitting them, LOL!

Few months later (it was last year) Saint Nicholas gave me an electrical RC
full function helicopter, just to annoy me. The manual said: don't try this
indoor and find an instructor if you haven't done it before. You guess: the
best part of my couch was ruined within the hour and I could find me a
webshop for repair parts of the helicopter. Nevertheless, when you manage
to hover it's very satisfying. But it took me some 10-15 hours of practice.
--
Everything I do is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
(W.C. Fields)

Danny wrote:
> I think I detected some fowl language in that youtube video, mike.
> Danny
>


I only went and checked it to see where the problem was.....didn't I?
Doh!

Yep! It sounds like someone has let the chickens out of the coop in that
one, Danny
--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK.
Regards engine power: Lots is good, more is better, and too much is just
enough.

Peter Olcott wrote:
> I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
> Microsoft flight simulator
> GE Real Flight
> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
> do to begin improving my skills?

A few versions ago I was having a difficult time moving the Bell
helicopter about at low altitude over the ramp and taxiways at the
simulator's Chicago Meigs airport. I suspect the airport scenery for
that version was generated from a modest resolution aerial photo, as the
pavement textures and edges were indistinct/blurry (they looked better
in more recent versions). Eventually my wanderings led over the runway
with its significantly sharper pavement texture. Suddenly I found
controlling the helicopter MUCH easier! Learning from that experience I
found hovering at low altitude and landing away from an airport
significantly easier when there was a building or tree a few dozen yards
in front of my simulated helicopter. I've concluded that the blurry
ground textures away from the more distinct pavement textures at
airports make it difficult to distinguish between a slow climb and a
rearward motion of the helicopter. I believe the wild out of control
spinning problem is a consequence of the helicopter fuselage turning to
face in the direction of rearward motion. The visual reference of
sharper pavement texture or a nearby building help me recognize the
beginning of those rearward motions while I can still recover from them.

Peter Olcott wrote:
> I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
> Microsoft flight simulator
> GE Real Flight
> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
> do to begin improving my skills?
>
>


I usually recommend to someone starting new on FS9/X helicopters to go
to Hovercontrol.com and download one of the great UH-60's there. You can
then taxi on the wheels and practice approaches landing on the wheels
with some forward ground speed. The more you practice the slower you
can land. Until you have it down pat and can terminate at a hover.

Someone mentioned getting a HUD from hovercontrol.com. Do it. Get rid
of the 2d panel and use the hud by itself. Get the one that has the
bare minimum of indicators. You don't really need an instrument panel to
learn to hover or even to fly but be careful, don't use the hud for much
of anything, especially any hover strobe that you use to try to keep the
ground speed low. Trying to use a hover strobe to maintain a constant
position over a spot changes FSx from a simulator to a game. Power
settings are about the only thing I can think of to use at a hover. In
flight just glancing at the airspeed, altimeter an VSI is all you need
VFR. Later on you can use the panel while flying but if you have it in
your way at first it will take a lot longer to get the hovering down.
Someone also nailed it, get to a place where there are sharp, in focus,
ground references to use as a reference for your hover. This is the
real reason you use only a hud, you need all the "*outside*" reference
points possible to maintain your hover.

=========================================
Approaches:

You don't maintain a constant speed in swing wings on final approach.
You maintain approach airspeed of 70 Knots (OH58) until you intercept
the approach angle (Normal - steep or - shallow) You begin your descent
by reducing collective. (You know that already)

You then maintain a constant apparent ground speed of a "Brisk Walk"
over the ground below you. At 400 feet AGL an apparent ground speed of
a brisk walk will be somewhere near 70 Knots. The same apparent brisk
walk at 30 feet AGL is way down around 15 - 20 Knots. You continue
until you touchdown with no forward ground speed.

Now, saying that, It's difficult to see what a brisk walk looks like in
a Sim Helicopter but with some practice you will get it. You can
forget the airspeed indicator once the approach begins (Unless you can't
see the ground)

===========================================
*Pedals:* (This is my experience)

Check the "Autorudder" check box.

If you have pedals, use them sparingly and only while in a flat hover.
If you try to coordinate pedals with cyclic at the same time you will
get frustrated. Unless you have Si's Torque Enhancement program which
does allow you to fly a helo that will respond to power changes, don't
worry much about the pedals. If you have a twist grip for rudder
control, use it very sparingly and only only at a 0 groundspeed hover.
Stop the helicopter, use pedals/twist grip to turn the aircraft to the
desired heading, and then taxi/takeoff. Racing wheel pedals work great
with a helicopter

I made a video of a Bell 206 in FS9 hovering out onto a runway, taking
off and the landing without ever touching the pedals. Maybe Dalli knows
where it is, I believe I made it for him. I did it using the CH Yoke
for the controller. The Yoke does fine flying helicopters and can be
trimmed so you barely need to touch it in flight.

Here is a joking video I made back when there were no great masterpiece
videos being made. Now I'm embarrassed to make another.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpRLspE-JY


--

========================
boB
========================

> Peter Olcott wrote:
>> I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
>> Microsoft flight simulator
>> GE Real Flight
>> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
>> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
>> do to begin improving my skills?
>>
>>


I forgot. Try different Zoom settings, find one that you are
comfortable with, then stay with it. If you are constantly changing the
Zoom setting you will find it difficult to learn to hover. I use .70
Zoom but that's just me.


--

========================
boB
========================

"boB" <psycho.dot.puppy RemoveThis @yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:gj4e00$lq0$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> Here is a joking video I made back when there were no great masterpiece
> videos being made. Now I'm embarrassed to make another.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpRLspE-JY
>
>

Never seen that one before /

Why should you be embarrassed? I think it's a darn good instructions video,
so I have it favourited now, for future use )

Hope you wont mind me linking to it, the next time some one gets frustrated
over why choppers are not as easy to handle, as fixed wings ;o)

Tommy C, Denmark

TOCA wrote:

>
> Never seen that one before /
>
> Why should you be embarrassed? I think it's a darn good instructions video,
> so I have it favourited now, for future use )
>
> Hope you wont mind me linking to it, the next time some one gets frustrated
> over why choppers are not as easy to handle, as fixed wings ;o)
>
> Tommy C, Denmark
>
>

Thank you Tommy. You can do what you want with it.... Have you seen
the one showing the Cobra low level flight.....


--

========================
boB
========================

That is an excellent video boB. Even it the content was not good the music
is good.
I still have my Deer Valley stuff in FS9, too. I will have to check out the
Cobra video you mentioned, also.
Since you made your living flying Helo's, I take your advise any day. You
know your helo stuff.
Danny



"boB" <psycho.dot.puppy.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gj4e00$lq0$1@news.albasani.net...
> Peter Olcott wrote:
>> I have tried practicing on two different simulators:
>> Microsoft flight simulator
>> GE Real Flight
>> and I just don't seem to be able to keep the helicopter from
>> spinning wildly out of control, what kinds of things can I
>> do to begin improving my skills?
>>
>>
>
>
> I usually recommend to someone starting new on FS9/X helicopters to go to
> Hovercontrol.com and download one of the great UH-60's there. You can then
> taxi on the wheels and practice approaches landing on the wheels with some
> forward ground speed. The more you practice the slower you can land.
> Until you have it down pat and can terminate at a hover.
>
> Someone mentioned getting a HUD from hovercontrol.com. Do it. Get rid of
> the 2d panel and use the hud by itself. Get the one that has the bare
> minimum of indicators. You don't really need an instrument panel to learn
> to hover or even to fly but be careful, don't use the hud for much of
> anything, especially any hover strobe that you use to try to keep the
> ground speed low. Trying to use a hover strobe to maintain a constant
> position over a spot changes FSx from a simulator to a game. Power
> settings are about the only thing I can think of to use at a hover. In
> flight just glancing at the airspeed, altimeter an VSI is all you need
> VFR. Later on you can use the panel while flying but if you have it in
> your way at first it will take a lot longer to get the hovering down.
> Someone also nailed it, get to a place where there are sharp, in focus,
> ground references to use as a reference for your hover. This is the real
> reason you use only a hud, you need all the "*outside*" reference points
> possible to maintain your hover.
>
> =========================================
> Approaches:
>
> You don't maintain a constant speed in swing wings on final approach. You
> maintain approach airspeed of 70 Knots (OH58) until you intercept the
> approach angle (Normal - steep or - shallow) You begin your descent by
> reducing collective. (You know that already)
>
> You then maintain a constant apparent ground speed of a "Brisk Walk"
> over the ground below you. At 400 feet AGL an apparent ground speed of
> a brisk walk will be somewhere near 70 Knots. The same apparent brisk
> walk at 30 feet AGL is way down around 15 - 20 Knots. You continue
> until you touchdown with no forward ground speed.
>
> Now, saying that, It's difficult to see what a brisk walk looks like in
> a Sim Helicopter but with some practice you will get it. You can
> forget the airspeed indicator once the approach begins (Unless you can't
> see the ground)
>
> ===========================================
> *Pedals:* (This is my experience)
>
> Check the "Autorudder" check box.
>
> If you have pedals, use them sparingly and only while in a flat hover. If
> you try to coordinate pedals with cyclic at the same time you will get
> frustrated. Unless you have Si's Torque Enhancement program which does
> allow you to fly a helo that will respond to power changes, don't worry
> much about the pedals. If you have a twist grip for rudder control, use
> it very sparingly and only only at a 0 groundspeed hover. Stop the
> helicopter, use pedals/twist grip to turn the aircraft to the desired
> heading, and then taxi/takeoff. Racing wheel pedals work great with a
> helicopter
>
> I made a video of a Bell 206 in FS9 hovering out onto a runway, taking off
> and the landing without ever touching the pedals. Maybe Dalli knows where
> it is, I believe I made it for him. I did it using the CH Yoke for the
> controller. The Yoke does fine flying helicopters and can be trimmed so
> you barely need to touch it in flight.
>
> Here is a joking video I made back when there were no great masterpiece
> videos being made. Now I'm embarrassed to make another.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpRLspE-JY
>
>
> --
>
> ========================
> boB
> ========================
>
>

"boB" <psycho.dot.puppy DeleteThis @yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:gjbf43$92f$1@news.albasani.net...
> TOCA wrote:
>
>>
>> Never seen that one before /
>>
>> Why should you be embarrassed? I think it's a darn good instructions
>> video, so I have it favourited now, for future use )
>>
>> Hope you wont mind me linking to it, the next time some one gets
>> frustrated over why choppers are not as easy to handle, as fixed wings
>> ;o)
>>
>> Tommy C, Denmark
>>
>>
>
> Thank you Tommy. You can do what you want with it.... Have you seen the
> one showing the Cobra low level flight.....
>
>
Hmmm......I might, but then again, my senior moments are starting to gain in
numbers /

Tommy C, Denmark

Danny wrote:
> That is an excellent video boB. Even it the content was not good the
> music is good.

> I still have my Deer Valley stuff in FS9, too. I will have to check out
> the Cobra video you mentioned, also.

I think that video is still on Deer Valley but I can't check. They
dropped me off (or kicked me out) because I couldn't get connected and I
didn't do Teamspeak. I sometimes have a hard time talking, at least
where you can understand me, so I don't try Did I already tell you
that over on DC3 Airways? At any rate I found a great group of guys on
DC3 Airways that still allow you to fly connected or not connected. I'm
on the 3d DC3 WW2 ferry flight right now. 1200 miles over water with
only an NDB with a range of 178 miles and that old Sperry Autopilot.

I would recommend flying with DC3 airways to anyone here who like the
"old days". They have so much, including those old ranging towers used
for cross country navigation. You can use any instrument panel you
like, from the original panel which doesn't have an RMI to the "Back to
the future" panels. It's up to you how realistic you want to simulate.


I believe that cobra video is on Youtube as well but it's not a very
good quality work.



> Since you made your living flying Helo's, I take your advise any day.
> You know your helo stuff.
> Danny
>


I don't know Danny. I used to know a lot, not so much IRL remembered
these days.

================================

I found it. (the video) I did the whole thing while filming only the
right, and half, of the 3 spanned outside monitors. I reversed the
throttle axis so the X-52 throttle so it worked just like a helicopter
collective where you pull the throttle back (or up) to increase power.

I have a prototype Dreamflyer motion simulator with heavy gauge tubing
which was highly polished. It's better than the production model, I
believe.

Cobra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkXdvKIaUkI

=====================================
Instrument Training/Proficiency

Using the Dreamflyer to maintain instrument proficiency. The video is
done with room lighting on part of the time but when flying for yourself
you can shut off all lighting and black out the room. With that it's
like you are enclosed and the motion in your inner ear is not what the
instruments tell you. You must fly the instruments, not what your head
tells you. This is also a very poor video and I've been meaning to
shoot it again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R556T8NTcTs&feature=related


--

========================
boB
========================