what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:23:58 -0800, Moosen <nospam.RemoveThis@buhbye.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:59:57 +0000, Catriona R
><catrionarNOSPAM.RemoveThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:27:01 -0000, pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
>>
>>>Lewis <gkreme.RemoveThis@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>I've stopped grouping with 'tanks' who refuse to run a threat meter.
>>>
>>>Or anyone else who doesn't. *
>>
>>Your loss, crutches aren't needed for playing in 5-mans...
>
>Certainly helps, though. Especially in pugs where you have no idea of
>the threat capability of your tanks. It's the difference between
>knowing exactly how much dps you can put out without stealing aggro,
>and getting bitch-slapped to death because you don't know where your
>aggro is in relation to theirs. Sure you can hold way back on your dps
>output to be safe, but that isn't playing very smart, and is wasting a
>lot of potential dps and much quicker and safer kills. I don't
>consider threatmeters a crutch, I consider them smart team play.

Most of that makes sense but I don't think blanket refusing to group with
*anyone* not using one is that sensible. I'm a healer, why exactly do I
need a threat meter? I've never used one because it makes no difference -
if I stop healing the tank to reduce my threat he dies and then I get *all*
the aggro....

> Guesswork is unnecessary and stupid. Not using threatmeters is lazy,
>careless, and thoughtless of your fellow partymembers. *Especially*
>for the tank. It just makes things unnecessarily difficult and
>dangerous for everyone. Now if everyone in the party likes the thrill
>of not knowing which one of them is going to die the next second due
>to stealing aggro, or enjoys unnecessarily slower killing due to
>everyone having to throttle way back on their dps to be uber
>careful... then more power to 'em.

Well I disagree. I've never used one on my rogue and think that if it ever
come to the stage where I do need one, I've failed. It's easy to avoid
aggro as a rogue, and as such, I don't see that it's necessary. Can
appreciate it being useful for tanks and those dps classes that have aggro
troubles, although I dislike the concept in principle, but I do not think a
blanket statement that *all* people should use them is right.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

Catriona R wrote:
>
> Well I disagree. I've never used one on my rogue and think that if it ever
> come to the stage where I do need one, I've failed. It's easy to avoid
> aggro as a rogue, and as such, I don't see that it's necessary. Can
> appreciate it being useful for tanks and those dps classes that have aggro
> troubles, although I dislike the concept in principle, but I do not think a
> blanket statement that *all* people should use them is right.

You can get along without using one. I did for two years. The problem is
the other people who can't control themselves. Of course, I have seen
players pull aggro while using a threat meter too. Those are the ones I
don't invite back.

I have limited experience healing in groups, but I would HATE to do it
without a meter. I think instance healing is the toughest job in the
game.

--

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:24:58 -0400, RogerM
<roger.mckay.DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Concentrate on the spellhit. I once had four straight resists on a sheep
>attempt in SL.

I seem to have been lucky so far, with poly. But, yes, Spellhit it
is..

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:37:45 -0700, Lewis <gkreme.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>> threat meter (learn to cast correctly, not when a little program says you can)
>
>I've stopped grouping with 'tanks' who refuse to run a threat meter.

Yep, I run threat meters on all characters.. it doesn't tell you when
you *can* caast, but when you *shouldn't*..

It tells my healer who will be needing watching soon.
It tells my tank who is likely to need a mob peeling off them soon.
It tells my Mage and rogue if they will soon be, or are already, in
danger of getting aggro off the tank.

No e-peen, sorry, damage meters though..

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:59:57 +0000, Catriona R
<catrionarNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>Your loss, crutches aren't needed for playing in 5-mans...

lol.. they're not *needed* in black temple or kara either.

It's just a tool that makes life a bit easier..
Not using them because you don't want to, that's your choice.
My choice is to provide as much help as I can to the group. whether
thats SM Cath or Shadowlabs.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:05:16 +0000, Catriona R
<catrionarNOSPAM RemoveThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>Most of that makes sense but I don't think blanket refusing to group with
>*anyone* not using one is that sensible. I'm a healer, why exactly do I
>need a threat meter? I've never used one because it makes no difference -
>if I stop healing the tank to reduce my threat he dies and then I get *all*
>the aggro...

Because when your threat hits above the tank, you can be ready when a
mob starts for you and fade.

No need to stop healing, though it might be a good idea to hold off
just while the mobs gets hit a time or two, but a lot better than
having to shield which ADDS to your threat even more.

I don't refuse to group with people not running a threatmeter, but I
do politely suggest they might want to look into getting one.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:52:11 -0400, RogerM <roger.mckay.RemoveThis@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>I have limited experience healing in groups, but I would HATE to do it
>without a meter. I think instance healing is the toughest job in the
>game.

Never even considered healing with a meter, what benefit does it actually
give? The way I heal I can keep the mobs targetted so can see who has aggro
from target of target (also have Grid set up with aggro markings), so don't
need a threat meter to tell me that, which is the most obvious benefit I
could see. For my own threat, it makes no difference, as stopping healing
means a dead tank and a lot more threat on me than if I'd just healed him

--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:10:38 +0000, Barry Freeman <bazz.TakeThisOut@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:05:16 +0000, Catriona R
><catrionarNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Most of that makes sense but I don't think blanket refusing to group with
>>*anyone* not using one is that sensible. I'm a healer, why exactly do I
>>need a threat meter? I've never used one because it makes no difference -
>>if I stop healing the tank to reduce my threat he dies and then I get *all*
>>the aggro...
>
>Because when your threat hits above the tank, you can be ready when a
>mob starts for you and fade.

But I can do that anyway, I have eyes and can see when the aggro mark
appears on Grid, and I'm not dumb enough to stand on top of mobs so they
can reach me in 2 steps

>No need to stop healing, though it might be a good idea to hold off
>just while the mobs gets hit a time or two, but a lot better than
>having to shield which ADDS to your threat even more.

Yep and I don't, I fade anyway and make my next heal cast a prayer of
mending which adds to the tank's threat and not mine.

>I don't refuse to group with people not running a threatmeter, but I
>do politely suggest they might want to look into getting one.

I do have Omen, and use it on my characters that *need* it, but so far
that's only my warlock. Having played pre-TBC when threat meters weren't
even used and everyone was expected to use common sense and skill regarding
threat, I really dislike the reliance on meters nowadays, so much prefer to
avoid them. Sadly I'm lacking the skill and judgement to manage aggro on my
warlock, so fair enough, I'll use a meter on him, but I'm not happy with
needing to. Likewise I guess I'll use one on my paladin when I start
grouping, as she's prot so I'll have to learn how to tank, but so far
there's no need for it on my other high level characters; my rogue can
manage threat with no problems and my healers find it irrelevant.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

On Jan 31, 12:10 pm, Dale <ab... DeleteThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Candido, you wrote :
>
> >Dale <ab... DeleteThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> So you wipe - is that really the end of the world? There is one reason
> >> why it's best not to use a threat meter - it's far more fun without one.
>
> >Is not so fun when you spend 1 hr killing trash mobs and a dps wipe a
> >raid because an overaggro
>
> Neither is spending 1 hour killing trash mobs and a wipe occurs because
> the healer slips off a ledge and dies. Does that mean there should be
> an add-on to tell you how close you are to a ledge? LBRS is a nightmare
> for ledges!
> --
> Dale
>
> Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.

There is a huge difference there. Threat, without an addon, is an
invisible number that you can only guess at based on your damage/
healing output. And you can really only guess at your own threat, as
trying to keep track of your threat and the tanks threat at the same
time just isn't feasible. If you pull aggro because you couldn't see
the threat, its only because you don't have the addon installed.

Ledges are in plain sight. If you fall off an edge because you didn't
see it, its because you weren't looking where you were going.

Dale <abuse RemoveThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> While I do use some add-ons (more the cosmetic ones, such as Bartender3,
> Elkbuffbars, X-Perl, just so my screen looks better), I don't have a
> damage meter (I'd rather not be more hassle to the healer), threat meter
> (learn to cast correctly, not when a little program says you can) or
> sheep monitor (they don't always work and if you grow too used to it,
> you'll not be a decent CCer if it doesn't work or a patch buggers it up
> - just check your sheep now and again).

What are you raiding?
--
Candido

Catriona R <catrionarNOSPAM DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:

> Never even considered healing with a meter, what benefit does it actually
> give?

The benefit is for others that can see your threat.
--
Candido

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:32:01 +0000, Catriona R
<catrionarNOSPAM DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>But I can do that anyway, I have eyes and can see when the aggro mark
>appears on Grid, and I'm not dumb enough to stand on top of mobs so they
>can reach me in 2 steps

So you do use a threat meter, albeit one built into grid?

I use Pitbull and Clique along with Omen...

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:01:20 +0000, Barry Freeman <bazz.RemoveThis@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:32:01 +0000, Catriona R
><catrionarNOSPAM.RemoveThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>But I can do that anyway, I have eyes and can see when the aggro mark
>>appears on Grid, and I'm not dumb enough to stand on top of mobs so they
>>can reach me in 2 steps
>
>So you do use a threat meter, albeit one built into grid?

Um, no? Aggro alert isn't the same....
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)