what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

On 28 Jan, 09:26, Barry Freeman <b....RemoveThis@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:42:00 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpl....RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Paladins, at least on my realm, seem to resist speccing prot.  Most of
> >them are around a 40/21 holy/prot spec, for healing instances or doing
> >battlegrounds and arenas.  Then there is the ret paladins as the next
> >most common, but prot paladins are really rare.  Its really sad too
> >because the easiest 5-mans I have ever done were with a prot paladin
> >and just AoEing groups down.
>
> Thats one reason I decided to spec prot for the start... expecting a
> hard slog, much like the prot warrors.
>
> Happily, prot pallies are really easy to level..so I'm a happy bunny,
> and I enjoy the tanking experience now I have suitable gear, at least
> for 5 mans.
>
> The hard bit is accepting that if you don't get aggro from the start,
> it's a hell of a job to get it back.
>
> Once you have it, you can pretty much keep it, but I dread the "sheep
> pull" because if I miss one of the consequent group with a consecrate
> then the mage will have company.

I was in group with a pally tank at the weekend. He wasn't the most
experienced tank and he had never been in the instance before (The
Mechanar - it was my first time too). Two of the group members really
weren't helping him though as they were hitting too soon. They often
had aggro before the tank got hit even once. I explained to them that
it is very important for a pally to get initial aggro as they generate
threat by being hit (the pally wasn't confident enough to stick up
for himself in this regard). It went a bit better after that but the
run was hindered by the two of us not knowing the instance and the
main leader of the group only explaining what we should have done
after it went wrong.

I'd group with him again but I doubt the other two would have as they
were probably under the impression that it was his fault more than
theirs.

steve.kaye

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:42:00 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpltom RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Paladins, at least on my realm, seem to resist speccing prot. Most of
>them are around a 40/21 holy/prot spec, for healing instances or doing
>battlegrounds and arenas. Then there is the ret paladins as the next
>most common, but prot paladins are really rare. Its really sad too
>because the easiest 5-mans I have ever done were with a prot paladin
>and just AoEing groups down.

Thats one reason I decided to spec prot for the start... expecting a
hard slog, much like the prot warrors.

Happily, prot pallies are really easy to level..so I'm a happy bunny,
and I enjoy the tanking experience now I have suitable gear, at least
for 5 mans.

The hard bit is accepting that if you don't get aggro from the start,
it's a hell of a job to get it back.

Once you have it, you can pretty much keep it, but I dread the "sheep
pull" because if I miss one of the consequent group with a consecrate
then the mage will have company.

chocolatemalt wrote:
> Lol! Molten Bore! I must be weird but I loved that place, never really
> got enough of it. But then I never quite got to Exalted (just a few
> thousand short) with Hydraxian Waterlords so maybe I didn't grind it as
> much as some people here.

I should check whether I ran it enough to get exalted. I got dragged
into MC by a RL friend as soon as I hit 60, having no fire resistance
at all, and was running BWL before I even had the 3-part T1 bonus. I
got half way through AQ40 and all I had of T2 was the helm. Old-world
raiding for me was a bit of a confusing railroad scenario, I never
even did the Burning Steppes quests to make it all my fault.

Hoofu, 70 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)

Catriona R wrote:
> with 40 I knew if
> I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
> have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice...

Until you reach Baron Geddon... 50DKP PENALTY FOR BLOWING UP THE
F*****G RAID!

Hoofu, 70 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)
***** = LAMIN, btw - literally in this case!

RogerM wrote:
> Uh-huh. Heroics are mainly for farming badges, and farming is no
> substitute for a final boss.

Was. Totally not worth it now that you get badges from Karazhan. Most
heroics are way harder than Kara, in my opinion, there are only a few
like Botanica that are easier. I went to Sethekk Halls the other day
with a party of Kara and SSC raiders, and we wiped about 10 times in
all. A lot of it was just lack of practice on the encounters I guess.

Hoofu, 70 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)

On Jan 25, 5:01 am, RogerM <roger.mc....TakeThisOut@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Aboo wrote:
>
> > There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> > is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
> > of Kara.
>
> Then it's not end-game. Kara gear is far from the best in the game.
>
> What is the end-game final boss?


There isn't one, in this case. WoW is an open-ended game. If you
want to restrain yourself to 5 man instances, you have defined your
own end-game as Heroics. That's your choice. I didn't make it for
you sir.

Barry Freeman wrote:
>
> The hard bit is accepting that if you don't get aggro from the start,
> it's a hell of a job to get it back.
>
> Once you have it, you can pretty much keep it, but I dread the "sheep
> pull" because if I miss one of the consequent group with a consecrate
> then the mage will have company.

Well, mages have Frost Nova (and now all have access to Ice Block) so
they can duck trouble for a few seconds. The problem is the mage, of
course. Sheep pulls should only be done when the tank says. I rarely do
them any more.

--

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:38:49 -0800 (PST), "steve.kaye"
<nospam.RemoveThis@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:

>
>I'd group with him again but I doubt the other two would have as they
>were probably under the impression that it was his fault more than
>theirs.

I hope you told him that.

Seriously, the biggest problems, and I suspect with ANY tank, is
experienced DPSers thinking the tank is just as experienced.

Since I mostly PUG these days, it's a situation I experience pretty
often.

Barry Freeman wrote:
>
> Seriously, the biggest problems, and I suspect with ANY tank, is
> experienced DPSers thinking the tank is just as experienced.
>

There is 'experienced' and there is 'skilled'. 'Skilled' DPS players
don't go all out when grouped with an unfamiliar tank, because they
don't KNOW how much threat the tank can generate. The DPS must assume
the tank is doing his best, and adjust to whatever that 'best' is.

> Since I mostly PUG these days, it's a situation I experience pretty
> often.

I have left my old guild and the new one I am running has only four
L70s, so PUGs look to be the future for me. I am NOT looking forward to
it.

--

>
> Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
> you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
> I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
> have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
> much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
> likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.

i dunno, i miss 40 mans to some degree
i had fellow class poeple i could chat with about class issues
25 mans you prob get 1 other of class, or maybe 2, depends on class
though i suppose

10 mans seem ok, but 25 mans seem half arsed

instead of lowering the poeple n the raid, they should have increased
the amount of loot a boss drops, instead of i dunno 2 or 3 epix, you
would get 4 or 5

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:45 -0400, RogerM
<roger.mckay.DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Barry Freeman wrote:
>>
>> Seriously, the biggest problems, and I suspect with ANY tank, is
>> experienced DPSers thinking the tank is just as experienced.
>>
>
>There is 'experienced' and there is 'skilled'. 'Skilled' DPS players
>don't go all out when grouped with an unfamiliar tank, because they
>don't KNOW how much threat the tank can generate. The DPS must assume
>the tank is doing his best, and adjust to whatever that 'best' is.
>
>> Since I mostly PUG these days, it's a situation I experience pretty
>> often.
>
>I have left my old guild and the new one I am running has only four
>L70s, so PUGs look to be the future for me. I am NOT looking forward to
>it.

You know, I feared and loathed PUGs until quite recently..
When the guild I'm started it's decline, we essentially stopped
organised guild runs.

So my Pally was levelled in guild, but with not much in the way of
guild support. In fact, the 70 that helped me on the Epic land mount
quest left the guild the next day.

So, for all of Outland I've PUGed everything, and guess what? There's
just as many good players as there are bad ones.
Statistically, i've had many more good runs than bad ones.
Having a tank does tend to skew the stats though. If you're evan half
way competent, people remember. So my PUGs these days are usually made
up of people I've grouped with before, for good runs. Just like a
guild, in fact.

Even the 12-year old DPS-crazy fire mage I grouped with on the first
Ramparts run. He was in a group for Underbog a week ago.. and what a
difference. Controlled DPS, no sheep pulls, but still a good amount of
ADHD bouncing around...

Barry Freeman wrote:
>
> So, for all of Outland I've PUGed everything, and guess what? There's
> just as many good players as there are bad ones.
> Statistically, i've had many more good runs than bad ones.

About 50/50 for me, and that is a huge drop from my usual guild runs. I
have been spoiled in that my guild had players who were both talented
and pleasant company.

> Having a tank does tend to skew the stats though. If you're evan half
> way competent, people remember. So my PUGs these days are usually made
> up of people I've grouped with before, for good runs. Just like a
> guild, in fact.
>

Unfortunately, my main is a mage and good DPS/CC is not difficult to
come by. I do have a couple of non-guildies who invite me for runs, but
we are not on at the same time a great deal.

--

In article <2curp317c090jvp1mqtrf3hhgkebul5i7e RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Barry Freeman <bazz RemoveThis @nospam.co.uk> wrote:

> So, for all of Outland I've PUGed everything, and guess what? There's
> just as many good players as there are bad ones.
> Statistically, i've had many more good runs than bad ones.
> Having a tank does tend to skew the stats though. If you're evan half
> way competent, people remember. So my PUGs these days are usually made
> up of people I've grouped with before, for good runs. Just like a
> guild, in fact.
>
> Even the 12-year old DPS-crazy fire mage I grouped with on the first
> Ramparts run. He was in a group for Underbog a week ago.. and what a
> difference. Controlled DPS, no sheep pulls, but still a good amount of
> ADHD bouncing around...

I think PUGging is invaluable for keeping your skills sharp. You can
learn just as much from the horrible mistakes of the bad players as from
the techniques of the good ones. Sticking with guildies makes you lazy
due to the high gear and experience, and the contempt they may have for
the "lowbie" instances.