what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

Psalm Nuclei wrote:
>
> I've yet to reach level 60, I've never done any of the "old world"
> raids.
>
> So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
> it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
> is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
> Is it the final raid of the game?

No, there are a few higher in the game. It IS a big jump from the
highest old word raid, though.

--

> Is it the final raid of the game?

Karazhan is the first TBC raid that level 70's will do. It's a 10-man. Many
people (myself included) who leveled their characters after TBC came out skip
the old-world raids entirely, so for lots of us Kara is the very first raid
we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)

Kara is located in deadwind pass, in Azeroth, rather than Outland.

It has bosses that range from fairly simple but tuff (Huntsman, Moroes,
Nightbane) to bosses that are very complicated (Shade of Aran, Netherspite).

There is an attunement process, but it is not all that difficult. I believe
it has you running a total of 4 regular TBC/Outland instances. Some of them
you can get your key fragment part way through, so you don't even have to run
the whole instance.

The attunement process serves as both a gear and a skill check. I'm glad they
have it, otherwise we'd have people who've never run an instance trying to
get into kara raids. Many guilds can power-run you through the keying process
very quickly if needed as the instances just don't take that long to run.

I'm on my fourth kara run now, and I'm still enjoying the content. Finally
got my "Ruby Slippers" from the Opera Event last night (damn you Blizzard!
sharing the cooldown with the hearthstone is a disappointment).

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Psalm Nuclei <meatnub.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> writes:
>So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
>it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
>is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
>Is it the final raid of the game?

Hardly! Karazhan is the lowest-level raid for 70s to do - think of it as a
10 man heroic in terms of difficulty. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

Psalm Nuclei <meatnub RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it the final raid of the game?

No, is the first one of TBC, that's why.
--
Candido

Psalm Nuclei wrote:
> I've yet to reach level 60, I've never done any of the "old world"
> raids.
>
> So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
> it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
> is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
> Is it the final raid of the game?

Kara is, IMO, one of the best developments that came with TBC. It is
entry-level raiding in terms of difficulty, but only 10 man. What this
means is that it is accessible to guilds that don't/will never have
enough people in them for 25 man stuff (let alone the 40 man stuff of
the old world). I played up to 60, and had a level 60 for about a year
before TBC came out, and while a guild I was in managed a couple of ZG
attempts, we could never get the people together for raiding. With
kara, we have enough players for a full raid, and we are finally getting
epics, and seeing epic bosses. Most of us are too "casual" (ie can't
play that much) for raiding guilds, and without this, most of us would
never have seen such content.

On Jan 24, 4:12 pm, RogerM <roger.mc....RemoveThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Catriona R wrote:
>
> > Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
> > you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
> > I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
> > have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
> > much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
> > likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.
>
> Same, and it's too bad there is no end-game for 5-man groups.
>
> --

There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
of Kara.

Marcel wrote:
>
> I have to disagree on that one.
> Running Karazhan just feels like going to UBRS or LBRS with a 10 men
> 'party'.
> Going through an instance with 40 people is imho much more impressive
> then doing it with only 10.
> Running around with 40 just felt so much better/nicer.

For me, doing MC at L60 was a major drag. I felt like a tiny cog in a
machine. Frankly, I'm not that pleased with the 10-man instances.

--

Catriona R wrote:
>
> Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
> you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
> I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
> have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
> much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
> likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.

Same, and it's too bad there is no end-game for 5-man groups.

--

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:19:19 -0800 (PST), Aboo <jhemphill RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 24, 4:12 pm, RogerM <roger.mc... RemoveThis @ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Catriona R wrote:
>>
>> > Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
>> > you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
>> > I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
>> > have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
>> > much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
>> > likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.
>>
>> Same, and it's too bad there is no end-game for 5-man groups.
>>
>> --
>
>There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
>is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
>of Kara.

True, but tbh the heroics really don't come across as worth the effort, it
ends up as a lot of wiping and getting the same lvl 68 blues you could on
normal, with one epic at the end, which in a lot of instances there is no
drop that would even benefit you. It's a shame as it's a good idea, but...
not really worth the hassle except the very easiest ones.
--
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Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

On 25 Jan, 11:01, RogerM <roger.mc... RemoveThis @ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Aboo wrote:
>
> > There is, it's called Heroics.  And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> > is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
> > of Kara.
>
> Then it's not end-game. Kara gear is far from the best in the game.

End-game is what you make of it. If you choose to limit yourself (for
whatever reason) to 5 man PvE content then heroics are your end-game.
If you want to PvP then I guess your end-game is in the arena. If you
want to raid then that is your end-game.

> What is the end-game final boss?

I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
the hardest heroic instance. (I don't know what that is as I've only
done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)

steve.kaye

On 25 Jan, 12:45, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
> steve.kaye wrote:
> > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > the hardest heroic instance.  (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> Hardest heroic I've tried is Durnholde. We gave up before the first boss.

My opinion on heroics....

Durnholde Heroic is hard(ish) due to the guards calling for re-
inforcements, causes lots of wipes.

....but after that, the rest is straight forward.

Shattered Halls Heroic is imo the hardest, since you MUST kill the
groups of mobs in a single attempt to progress. I dont mean the first
attempt, what i mean is you can not kill 1 mob, wipe, come back, kill
another mob, wipe, come back and so on. You can not progress through
Shattered halls heroic unless all mobs in a group are dead b4 your
group is, or they respawn. (same for normal mode to come to think of
it).

Another tricky one I guess is Black Morass (Dark Portal) for the same
reason, if the shield goes down, start again. Tactics wise tho, Black
Morass has a lot less going on, so i consider it easier than SH
Heroic.

CG

On Jan 25, 8:26 am, ImmortalCG <Immorta... RemoveThis @f2s.com> wrote:
> On 25 Jan, 12:45, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > steve.kaye wrote:
> > > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > > the hardest heroic instance. (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> > Hardest heroic I've tried is Durnholde. We gave up before the first boss.
>
> My opinion on heroics....
>
> Durnholde Heroic is hard(ish) due to the guards calling for re-
> inforcements, causes lots of wipes.
>
> ....but after that, the rest is straight forward.
>
> Shattered Halls Heroic is imo the hardest, since you MUST kill the
> groups of mobs in a single attempt to progress. I dont mean the first
> attempt, what i mean is you can not kill 1 mob, wipe, come back, kill
> another mob, wipe, come back and so on. You can not progress through
> Shattered halls heroic unless all mobs in a group are dead b4 your
> group is, or they respawn. (same for normal mode to come to think of
> it).
>
> Another tricky one I guess is Black Morass (Dark Portal) for the same
> reason, if the shield goes down, start again. Tactics wise tho, Black
> Morass has a lot less going on, so i consider it easier than SH
> Heroic.
>
> CG

I've attempted heroic SH and BM. I fear heroic OH and refuse to go
there. One day, the daily heroic was for old Hillsbrad, and I dropped
the quest. I had enough trouble with level 66-68ish pugs, I can't
imagine doing that on heroic with a pug.

The one attempt I made on heroic SH ended in failure that was blamed
on me even though the real failure was with the tank. It was a guild
group who pugged out the last open spot, to me. The tank was arms/
fury specced and couldn't hold aggro through even minimal damage from
me or the priests healing. Eventually the guild decided it wasn't
going to work because we didn't have enough CC, i.e. my CC wasn't
enough. Easy to blame the 1 person who wasn't in their guild I
suppose.

Heroic BM I have successfully done twice. I find it to be easy so
long as people know and are capable of doing their jobs. 2 DPS need
to provide enough DPS to make up for the person on adds. Player on
adds needs to make sure to stay close enough to the healer to receive
heals when they need it. Healer needs to position himself such that
the player on adds can pick them up and not have to kite them so he
can be within range of the healer. Combine that with a tank that can
hold aggro on the rift lords and heroic BM comes not much harder than
normal BM.

Aboo wrote:
>
> There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
> of Kara.

Then it's not end-game. Kara gear is far from the best in the game.

What is the end-game final boss?

--