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Next: Trophy: Diablerie
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:55 pm
Post subject: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! Archived from groups: rec>games>trading-cards>jyhad (more info?)
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(Sorry, don't know if this is going to the right thread - I'm having
some trouble with this google group thing... Says "Unable to retrieve
message")
I think it's a pretty genius deck, and has the potential to slay
pretty much any deck without much trouble. The way I see it, it has
three major faults.
One, it's a one-man-show (or a one-woman-show, haven't seen the
vampire), and is vulnerable to all kinds of nastiness targeting
single, powerful vamps. Still, rarely do those come up in your first
few turns or are doable right then and there... So I wouldn't want to
start as Una's prey.
Two, it can die from a bad shuffle or draw. If for some reason, the
deck only gets a few freaks in the first 3-5 rounds of the game, it's
pretty dead. Alternately, if it ONLY gets freaks, it can't do much
either (as the only actions you can do without cards are pretty much
hunt and bleed).
Three, it can die if the opponent has a good hand. Basically the
strategy here is to first equip everything you can and hire all the
retainers you can, then attack the enemy minions with direct attacks
(torporizing or at least tapping them), and then bleed for a lot. If
the enemy can withstand the attacks (which only takes a handful of
dodges, S:CEs or fortitude) - or even worse, torporize Una (agg damage
won't do the trick most likely as she has plenty of maneuvers and
damage prevention, but things like Coma would work) - the cycle stops,
and doesn't start again easily.
I do think its a powerful deck, IF it starts to run smoothly, and the
above three things do not come up. However, I also think that a sign
of a good deck is the ability to recover from a bad situation, and
that's something this deck lacks in a major way. Once Una goes to
torpor, its very unlikely she'll ever make it back out. If the player
gets a bad draw, he's gonna get eaten alive before he can discard
himself into better cards. Since there are so few direct attack cards,
Una can also be stopped by a good hand of defensive combat, and once
those rushes are gone, there's little she can do but bleed once per
turn and get blocked.
It IS a nasty deck though.  |
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Since: Dec 29, 2005 Posts: 323
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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NorthSaber wrote:
> One, it's a one-man-show (or a one-woman-show, haven't seen the
> vampire), and is vulnerable to all kinds of nastiness targeting
> single, powerful vamps. Still, rarely do those come up in your first
> few turns or are doable right then and there... So I wouldn't want to
> start as Una's prey.
True.
> Two, it can die from a bad shuffle or draw. If for some reason, the
> deck only gets a few freaks in the first 3-5 rounds of the game, it's
> pretty dead.
That's pretty unlikely. Half the deck is freaks.
> Alternately, if it ONLY gets freaks, it can't do much
> either (as the only actions you can do without cards are pretty much
> hunt and bleed).
That happens but it is unimportant. I watched Dennis get a glut of
freaks and he just hunted, freaked, hunted, freaked, until he got
something useful.
> Three, it can die if the opponent has a good hand.
Certainly. Pred or Prey can do the job.
-Robert |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Think about what we're saying.
There's no such thing as a bad draw. Almost 2/3rds of the deck is
Freak, so you'll never draw a starting hand without a couple. If you
get all Freaks, hunt them away and you'll get the other stuff. Dennis
hunted 8 straight times in our game. Forget any hand-jam
considerations - they don't exist.
Yeah, if you opponents punk Una before, or in the first action then
you're stuck. But this is admitedly a blaze-design deck - and it
either goes off or not. When it does, it very difficult to stop.
For the solutions you propose, the options are pretty limited. You
can't dodge environmental agg damage (ghoul retainer + ivory bow), nor
can use use many common prevention cards that rely on preventing
strikes. You can't play presence-based S:CE, nor can you play Coma
(Blessing of Chaos). Yeah, there are other S:CE and damage prevents,
but Dennis was effective in minimizing the number of available options
- it's just tough to see that at first glance. And you better have
several of them in hand, cause he'll rush 5 times in his opening
gambit.
There is insidious strength in this deck - after it gets tooled up. |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 1759
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Darby Keeney wrote:
> There's no such thing as a bad draw. Almost 2/3rds of the deck is
> Freak, so you'll never draw a starting hand without a couple.
Sure, but an opening hand of nothing but Freaks means you have to take a few
actions that are like "hunt, Freak, hunt, Freak...", and if you get blocked
on one of those (and hunting 4 times in a row with Una is likely to yell out
"block me soon or never!"), you have zero defense--your whole deck strategy
is revolving around a +1 stealth action when you have zero combat defense
other than permanents--it is pretty easy to get blocked on your first action
and killed right off.
Peter D Bakija
pdb6.DeleteThis@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:36 am
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Peter D Bakija <pdb6.TakeThisOut@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:<BEE4CB2D.20478%pdb6@lightlink.com>...
> Darby Keeney wrote:
> Sure, but an opening hand of nothing but Freaks means you have to take a few
> actions that are like "hunt, Freak, hunt, Freak...", and if you get blocked
To me it seems like that NRA is fine for hunt, but I don't think a
vampire should be able to hunt when at full blood. That would stop
this deck from burning extra Freaks to get a better hand. |
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Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 379
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Peter D Bakija wrote:
> -You have a very teniously and sketchily set up Kyoko Shinsegawa strategy
> going. If you can set this up and not get immediately ousted, more power to
> you.
You mean Kyoko hunts off someone, Freaks, hunts off someone else, etc?
I'm sure that would be a popular strategy (see Cryptic Mission, except
Kyoko doesn't need a card for it) if it were legal. Her hunt action is
granted by a card in play (herself) and subject to NRA.
Matt Morgan |
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Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 379
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:08 am
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Jeroen Rombouts wrote:
>
> "Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar.RemoveThis@io.com> schreef in bericht
> news:20050627105235.V50072@fnord.io.com...
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Peter D Bakija wrote:
>>
>>> -You have a very teniously and sketchily set up Kyoko Shinsegawa strategy
>>> going. If you can set this up and not get immediately ousted, more power
>>> to
>>> you.
>>
>> You mean Kyoko hunts off someone, Freaks, hunts off someone else, etc? I'm
>> sure that would be a popular strategy (see Cryptic Mission, except Kyoko
>> doesn't need a card for it) if it were legal. Her hunt action is granted
>> by a card in play (herself) and subject to NRA.
>>
> I think he knows that He was talking about the fact that kyoko wouldn't
> been able to hunt while full if you changed NRA.
She can't anyway (unless of course she can gain all the blood she needs
in one hunt). Kyoko can't perform the normal cardless hunt action.
Matt Morgan |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 1759
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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NorthSaber wrote:
> To me it seems like that NRA is fine for hunt, but I don't think a
> vampire should be able to hunt when at full blood. That would stop
> this deck from burning extra Freaks to get a better hand.
Yeah, I'm not seeing this particular deck as a need to change the NRA
rules--other than this deck (and in the case of this deck, it is only
arguably problematic), hunting while full is hardly a problem at all. It
only ever comes up, generally speaking, in the following situations:
-You have a hand full of Freak Drives (in a non Una abuse deck) and want to
fish for something useful. For my money, people fishing for something useful
by burning Freak Drives is just fine.
-You have a very teniously and sketchily set up Kyoko Shinsegawa strategy
going. If you can set this up and not get immediately ousted, more power to
you.
-You are playing the "March Halcyon tries to withdraw on Turn 3" deck. Yeah,
this needs shutting down...
If there is a problem that this deck is indicative of (which I am yet to be
convinced of, personally, but that is me), it is a problem with Una that
could easily be tweaked by fixing her without doing collateral damage (say,
change her ability to "Una pays 1 less blood for Fortitude combat cards or
actions" or something.)
Peter D Bakija
pdb6.DeleteThis@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil |
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Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 121
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Darby Keeney" <darby.keeney.DeleteThis@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1119829750.437387.252600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Think about what we're saying.
>
> There's no such thing as a bad draw.
yes there is. Because of non redundancy in the cards it possible that the
ivory bow is in the last 5 cards of his deck. Making the rushes a non
playable (well, very inefficent in any case) card. no combat also means you
cannot cycle your for prevent. |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 1759
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:46 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> You mean Kyoko hunts off someone, Freaks, hunts off someone else, etc?
> I'm sure that would be a popular strategy (see Cryptic Mission, except
> Kyoko doesn't need a card for it) if it were legal. Her hunt action is
> granted by a card in play (herself) and subject to NRA.
Yeah, that was likely what I meant, and then not paying attention that it
wasn't legal. Making it even less desireable to change the NRA rules.
Peter D Bakija
pdb6 DeleteThis @lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil |
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Since: Jun 25, 2005 Posts: 160
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:21 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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LSJ wrote:
> Peter D Bakija wrote:
> > If there is a problem that this deck is indicative of (which I am yet to be
> > convinced of, personally, but that is me), it is a problem with Una that
> > could easily be tweaked by fixing her without doing collateral damage (say,
> > change her ability to "Una pays 1 less blood for Fortitude combat cards or
> > actions" or something.)
>
> If there's a problem here, I doubt if it's Una. It's either Freak's
> in-turn repeatability or hunt's in-turn repeatability.
Just limit the number of actions a minion can take by their capacity...
Seems reasonable to me. Makes fatties 'better'.
~SV |
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Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 121
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:01 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar.DeleteThis@io.com> schreef in bericht
news:20050627105235.V50072@fnord.io.com...
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Peter D Bakija wrote:
>
>> -You have a very teniously and sketchily set up Kyoko Shinsegawa strategy
>> going. If you can set this up and not get immediately ousted, more power
>> to
>> you.
>
> You mean Kyoko hunts off someone, Freaks, hunts off someone else, etc? I'm
> sure that would be a popular strategy (see Cryptic Mission, except Kyoko
> doesn't need a card for it) if it were legal. Her hunt action is granted
> by a card in play (herself) and subject to NRA.
>
I think he knows that  He was talking about the fact that kyoko wouldn't
been able to hunt while full if you changed NRA. |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 1759
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:01 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jeroen Rombouts wrote:
> I think he knows that He was talking about the fact that kyoko wouldn't
> been able to hunt while full if you changed NRA.
Oh. Uh, yeah. That's it. That's what I meant all along...
Peter D Bakija
pdb6 DeleteThis @lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil |
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Since: Jun 25, 2005 Posts: 17
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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What problem is there? If this were an unbeatable, or nearly unbeatable
deck, that would be one thing (something would be "broken"), but it
isn't. In fact, it sounds fragile and hard to play well. Probably
requires a good deal of skill *and* luck.
We already have a long list of things that would stop this deck dead
even if you weren't specifically prepared for it. It's still brilliant
and spectacular, and congrats to the creator, but if it swept up
tables, it was probably due more to shock value than anything.
Super-equipped Una rushes? I prevent one (aggravated) damage from the
Ivory Bow. Press? I prevent again. If she struck me at short range, she
just rushed for 4 non-aggravated damage. I'm more afraid of your
average Brujah or Assamite.
Come to think of it, how would she deal with Assamites, or Tremere?
It's a very clever trick, but it doesn't "break" anything, and it
doesn't demonstrate a need to change any rules. |
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Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 370
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this! [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> If there is a problem that this deck is indicative of (which I am yet to be
> convinced of, personally, but that is me), it is a problem with Una that
> could easily be tweaked by fixing her without doing collateral damage (say,
> change her ability to "Una pays 1 less blood for Fortitude combat cards or
> actions" or something.)
If there's a problem here, I doubt if it's Una. It's either Freak's
in-turn repeatability or hunt's in-turn repeatability.
--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ |
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