Ok ok. You guys were right. They're fun games. :)

McG. wrote:
> I am hooked on TRAnniversary now. I don't like Laras Mansion, and where's
> Winston anyways? I'll DO Laras Mansion cause it's a puzzle. What I don't
> like about it is the pool is closed.
>
> The Caves were my training level. I'm going back and find the relic the
> level exit screen says I missed. I got the artifacts and supplies. Wow,
> the scenery/graphics are just spectacular compared to the original TR!
> Yep, this one has me hooked just about like the first one did. I'll really
> enjoy Underworld too. I've already played some in it. And my remapped key
> problem disappeared when I simply restarted the game after it crashed.
>
> Ok, off to the Caves again
>
> McG.
>
>

Anniversary was awsome. It was so much fun to re-live those places and
figure out what they did, what they changed, and what was what.

the commentary in the game is interesting too, after you've finished it
you can choose to replay the game with cheats, tweaks, outfits,
whatever, but can always choose commentary. toby gard, in some places,
sounded kind of offended by what the other guy was saying and defended
the orig tr in many places.

replayability is way up there, so have fun! oh and don't let the
adreniline dodge get you down. you can work around it if you like.

"J.H." <justaguyhanginout DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rugZk.2016$si6.1110@edtnps83...
> McG. wrote:
>> I am hooked on TRAnniversary now. I don't like Laras Mansion, and
>> where's Winston anyways? I'll DO Laras Mansion cause it's a puzzle.
>> What I don't like about it is the pool is closed.
>>
>> The Caves were my training level. I'm going back and find the relic the
>> level exit screen says I missed. I got the artifacts and supplies. Wow,
>> the scenery/graphics are just spectacular compared to the original TR!
>> Yep, this one has me hooked just about like the first one did. I'll
>> really enjoy Underworld too. I've already played some in it. And my
>> remapped key problem disappeared when I simply restarted the game after
>> it crashed.
>>
>> Ok, off to the Caves again
>>
>> McG.
>
> Anniversary was awsome. It was so much fun to re-live those places and
> figure out what they did, what they changed, and what was what.
>
> the commentary in the game is interesting too, after you've finished it
> you can choose to replay the game with cheats, tweaks, outfits, whatever,
> but can always choose commentary. toby gard, in some places, sounded kind
> of offended by what the other guy was saying and defended the orig tr in
> many places.
>
> replayability is way up there, so have fun! oh and don't let the
> adreniline dodge get you down. you can work around it if you like.

Commentary? Must be something you have to have the disks for. I have the
Steam version. No I just looked in options. I haven't earned any
commentaries yet, they're all question marks. I have 1 relic thou.
Killer Whale bottle. Hard won that little guy was too!
McG.

"McG." <McCodger RemoveThis @comcast.ne> wrote in message
news:49358d57$0$1901$ec3e2dad@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>I am hooked on TRAnniversary now.

Heh heh heh! I won't say I told you so!

When you mentioned the pool being closed though, I could have sworn that TRA
did do something there. But it seems that is Legend. They really do seem to
merge into one!

Enjoy.

JW

"John Whitworth" <sexyjw.RemoveThis@g_EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> wrote in message
news:49359950$0$1332$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> "McG." <McCodger.RemoveThis@comcast.ne> wrote in message
> news:49358d57$0$1901$ec3e2dad@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>>I am hooked on TRAnniversary now.
>
> Heh heh heh! I won't say I told you so!
>
> When you mentioned the pool being closed though, I could have sworn that
> TRA did do something there. But it seems that is Legend. They really do
> seem to merge into one!
>
> Enjoy.
>
> JW
In Legend you get the pool in two sections. The huge formal room pool and
the training room pool. In TRA, you get it, and can see it between the
cracks of the timbers.
Gee, Caves and Vilcabamba went fast!
McG.

"jeffareid" <jeffareid.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H%hZk.14897$st1.2552@newsfe10.iad...
>> I am hooked on TRAnniversary now.
>> I'll really enjoy Underworld too.
>
> I think you'll end up liking Underworld better. Anniversary has a
> few timed sequences involving Lara's newer moves that bothered some
> players (note TR1 also had it's share of timed sequences). The
> vautling spots in Anniverare always obvious wall "curbs".
> Underworld blends in the vautling spots as part of the scenery,
> plus includes climbable walls that also blend in well.

Puzzles have timers too yaknow The exit between Vilcabamba and Caves
is the first.
In TRA, Lara also has some cool moves that are a *little* more controllable
than in TRL. The run with rapid tapping of crouch key gives us the nice
gymnastic floor run

>
> One difference is that the distance Lara jumps isn't fixed but usually
> a canned sequence depending on her current position. This is obvious
> where Lara can barely jump upwards unless there is something for her to
> grab onto. Horizontal jumps also vary in distance, which allows for more
> natural scenery, but some of the jumps initially appear to be to far to
> be makeable.

I've seen the vari distance issue already. That ridiculous. It can vary
for every situation. If you don't get it right the first time you might do
it fifty times to get through it. The thing I'm having a hard time with is
the grapple.

>
> Although somewhat rare, on some fast machines, there are a two locations
> where where Lara simply doesn't jump far enough. Without giving any
> spoilers here, one potential bug spot is near the end of Natla's caves,
> and the other in the Great Pyramid (2 or maybe 3 jumps there). One
> workaround
> is to use fraps and have it recording while you play through these
> sections
> to "slow" your system down. The freeware version of fraps is good enough
> for
> this purpose as you get 30 seconds of "slow" time.

I saw mention of this problem in the forums. I got a ways to go to get
there Jeff! So how fast is too fast a machine? This one rates a little
below average on FutureMark06 at the ORB! LOL! Wish I could see a way to
filter out all overclocking from the results. That would give me a more
realistic comparison to my rig.

McG.

>
>
>

jeffareid wrote:
>> I am hooked on TRAnniversary now.
>> I'll really enjoy Underworld too.
>
> I think you'll end up liking Underworld better. Anniversary has a
> few timed sequences involving Lara's newer moves that bothered some
> players (note TR1 also had it's share of timed sequences). The
> vautling spots in Anniverare always obvious wall "curbs".
> Underworld blends in the vautling spots as part of the scenery,
> plus includes climbable walls that also blend in well.

see, people say that, but i thought they were just as obvious in
underworld. i never once got stuck playing underworld. i had the joint
mapped out as soon as i entered it. even the darkest rooms were obvious.

>
> One difference is that the distance Lara jumps isn't fixed but usually
> a canned sequence depending on her current position. This is obvious
> where Lara can barely jump upwards unless there is something for her to
> grab onto. Horizontal jumps also vary in distance, which allows for more
> natural scenery, but some of the jumps initially appear to be to far to
> be makeable.

i'm guessing you're talking about underworld here? it didn't make sense
to me how she could reach 3 feet out of the water to grab a rock but
couldn't reach half a foot in other places. very annoying, because any
tomb raider knows there's a 'reach limit' in every tr game. what i
liked about TRA and TRL was the 'extended reach' look lara had going for
a ledge. one arm out as far as she could take it. i don't recall that
in underworld, but i might have been comatose.

>
> Although somewhat rare, on some fast machines, there are a two locations
> where where Lara simply doesn't jump far enough. Without giving any
> spoilers here, one potential bug spot is near the end of Natla's caves,
> and the other in the Great Pyramid (2 or maybe 3 jumps there). One workaround
> is to use fraps and have it recording while you play through these sections
> to "slow" your system down. The freeware version of fraps is good enough for
> this purpose as you get 30 seconds of "slow" time.
>
>
>

>> Underworld blends in the vautling spots as part of the scenery,
>> plus includes climbable walls that also blend in well.
>
> i thought they were just as obvious in underworld.

Obvious maybe, but at least they blended into the scenery rather than
looking like curbs attached to the walls of a room.

>> One difference is that the distance Lara jumps isn't fixed but usually
>> a canned sequence depending on her current position.

> i'm guessing you're talking about underworld here?

and Legends and Anniversary. For example, pole to pole jump distances
vary in the CD games, but column top jumps in the older TR games relied
on the columns being spaced a fixed distance (the block oriented maps).

For example TR1 Midas Palace fire column sequence:

http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr1mpfc.wmv

or TR4 Hand of Orion sequence:

http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr4ho.wmv

I don't have a video, but compare this to the pole to pole jumps at
the end of Anniversary's Natla's Mines, where height and distance all
vary.

"jeffareid" <jeffareid.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7PlZk.8313$yB5.2852@newsfe21.iad...
>>> Underworld blends in the vautling spots as part of the scenery,
>>> plus includes climbable walls that also blend in well.
>>
>> i thought they were just as obvious in underworld.
>
> Obvious maybe, but at least they blended into the scenery rather than
> looking like curbs attached to the walls of a room.
>
>>> One difference is that the distance Lara jumps isn't fixed but usually
>>> a canned sequence depending on her current position.
>
>> i'm guessing you're talking about underworld here?
>
> and Legends and Anniversary. For example, pole to pole jump distances
> vary in the CD games, but column top jumps in the older TR games relied
> on the columns being spaced a fixed distance (the block oriented maps).

[in Optimus Primes voice:] It is based on... The Cube! )

>
> For example TR1 Midas Palace fire column sequence:
>
> http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr1mpfc.wmv
>
> or TR4 Hand of Orion sequence:
>
> http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr4ho.wmv
>
> I don't have a video, but compare this to the pole to pole jumps at
> the end of Anniversary's Natla's Mines, where height and distance all
> vary.
>
>
>

jeffareid wrote:
>>> Underworld blends in the vautling spots as part of the scenery,
>>> plus includes climbable walls that also blend in well.
>> i thought they were just as obvious in underworld.
>
> Obvious maybe, but at least they blended into the scenery rather than
> looking like curbs attached to the walls of a room.

they still look like curbs to me.

>
>>> One difference is that the distance Lara jumps isn't fixed but usually
>>> a canned sequence depending on her current position.
>
>> i'm guessing you're talking about underworld here?
>
> and Legends and Anniversary. For example, pole to pole jump distances
> vary in the CD games, but column top jumps in the older TR games relied
> on the columns being spaced a fixed distance (the block oriented maps).
>
> For example TR1 Midas Palace fire column sequence:
>
> http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr1mpfc.wmv
>
> or TR4 Hand of Orion sequence:
>
> http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr4ho.wmv
>
> I don't have a video, but compare this to the pole to pole jumps at
> the end of Anniversary's Natla's Mines, where height and distance all
> vary.
>
>
>


the difference between core and cd, yeah, that's obvious. it's because
they left the grid system behind, that's all. the things i saw happen
in underworld (reaching a ledge she shouldn't even be able to jump up
to) annoyed me, where that didn't really happen in the first two from
cd. the only time that happened in the first two were when she was
jumping on top of pillars. and i didn't like that, either. obviously
going to go further then *ttttttttthupp!* sucked right to it. that is
where i miss the grid system. if you missed it, you missed it *hard!*

maybe because of the magnet effect (lara needs to get out here so no
matter what, stick her to it!) or a game bug, i don't know, but i don't
like it. i saw lara makes jumps at least 3x her 'normal' distance and
stick to a ledge in underworld. it was nuts. there wasn't even much in
the way of animation, just a jump and a body slam against whatever she
was supposed to be grabbing.

"J.H." <justaguyhanginout DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3woZk.2016$yK5.674@edtnps82...
> jeffareid wrote:
>>>> Underworld blends in the vautling spots as part of the scenery,
>>>> plus includes climbable walls that also blend in well.
>>> i thought they were just as obvious in underworld.
>>
>> Obvious maybe, but at least they blended into the scenery rather than
>> looking like curbs attached to the walls of a room.
>
> they still look like curbs to me.
>
>>
>>>> One difference is that the distance Lara jumps isn't fixed but usually
>>>> a canned sequence depending on her current position.
>>
>>> i'm guessing you're talking about underworld here?
>>
>> and Legends and Anniversary. For example, pole to pole jump distances
>> vary in the CD games, but column top jumps in the older TR games relied
>> on the columns being spaced a fixed distance (the block oriented maps).
>>
>> For example TR1 Midas Palace fire column sequence:
>>
>> http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr1mpfc.wmv
>>
>> or TR4 Hand of Orion sequence:
>>
>> http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr4ho.wmv
>>
>> I don't have a video, but compare this to the pole to pole jumps at
>> the end of Anniversary's Natla's Mines, where height and distance all
>> vary.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> the difference between core and cd, yeah, that's obvious. it's because
> they left the grid system behind, that's all. the things i saw happen
> in underworld (reaching a ledge she shouldn't even be able to jump up
> to) annoyed me, where that didn't really happen in the first two from
> cd. the only time that happened in the first two were when she was
> jumping on top of pillars. and i didn't like that, either. obviously
> going to go further then *ttttttttthupp!* sucked right to it. that is
> where i miss the grid system. if you missed it, you missed it *hard!*
>
> maybe because of the magnet effect (lara needs to get out here so no
> matter what, stick her to it!) or a game bug, i don't know, but i don't
> like it. i saw lara makes jumps at least 3x her 'normal' distance and
> stick to a ledge in underworld. it was nuts. there wasn't even much in
> the way of animation, just a jump and a body slam against whatever she
> was supposed to be grabbing.

I don't know how bad that is in UW yet, haven't played that far into it, and
the demo showed me something completely different than that.
But TRA now, I DO see this. It seems there are little scenes set up where
each have their own setups, including its set of paramaters for pass/fail.
Most of these give you a fairly broad 'pass', but there are some with a very
narrow 'pass' range. Ha! And I've only just left Vilcabamba and entered
The Lost Valley!
I see very poor collision detection for Lara throughout this one so far.
Mansion included. It's so bad in fact, I'm not homesick for the orignal TR
now. ;-D
Actually, other than Cores cube grid vs open mesh, the single biggest
difference between Crystal Dynamics 3 and Cores first 5 (Well, AoD too) is
The Grapple. They should have made that to stick anywhere anytime like iD
Software did with the first 3 Quakes!
Oh, controlling Lara in a fight is a pure mess. She cannot move backwards
so she's about useless in a fight.
McG.

>> Although somewhat rare, on some fast machines, there are a two locations
>> where where Lara simply doesn't jump far enough. Without giving any
>> spoilers here, one potential bug spot is near the end of Natla's caves,
>> and the other in the Great Pyramid (2 or maybe 3 jumps there).
>> One workaround is to use fraps and have it recording while you play through
>> these sections to "slow" your system down.

> So how fast is too fast a machine?

My system specs:

Intel Core 2 extreme X6800 2.93ghz
Intel D975XBX motherboard, 2GB 4-4-4-10 667mhz ddr2ram
ATI HD4870 PCI-E video card (not the x2 version)
Sound Blaster X-Fi

At the time I made this bug video I had a ATI X1900XTX PE (not cross fire)

http://jeffareid.net/tr/tragpbug.wmv

I send a tech support email to CD about the issue in Anniversary, and they
claimed that my system was unexpectedly fast (this was tech support, so
who knows how accurate this is). Systems similar or faster than mine
pre-date Anniversary by a year, so this didn't seem like a valid excuse.

> I've seen the vari distance issue already. That ridiculous. It can vary
> for every situation. If you don't get it right the first time you might
> do it fifty times to get through it. The thing I'm having a hard time
> with is the grapple.

> But TRA now, I DO see this. It seems there are little scenes set up
> where each have their own setups, including its set of paramaters for
> pass/fail. Most of these give you a fairly broad 'pass', but there are
> some with a very narrow 'pass' range.

I'm not sure what the parameters are for the grapple, but it's similar to
the jumps. Lara needs to be in a "pass/fail" zone for the grapple jump to
work, sometimes she'll appear to make a catch when she shouldn't but it's
usually the other way around. Part of this is some of the grapple
"jump and grab" sequences seems to be canned at a fixed rate, regardless
of Lara's swing speed at the time.

For the grapple, I find it best to aim the camera at the wall, using left
and right for swing, then back (down) for the jump if a side jump. Example
video:

http://jeffareid.net/tr/traok3.wmv

For the variable jump distances, there are times I wonder if a successful
move was a glitch or intended, and on the other hand if an unsucessful
move was supposed to be doable.

Sometimes Lara won't jump onto what appear to be jumpable blocks. This
happens at least once in Scantuary of Scion in TRA (to get a secret
on block). The work around is to double tap the jump key for a front flip,
and Lara will make the jump.


> Actually, other than Cores cube grid vs open mesh, the single biggest
> difference between Crystal Dynamics 3 and Cores first 5 (Well, AoD too)

AOD didn't have a grid system either, although Lara's jumps were more
consistent. The standing jumps could be "short" or "long", so the target
landing spots had to be some fixed distance away, but not at any specific
angle. The pole jumping sequence below shows this. Note Lara just lands
where she lands, the game doesn't "auto center" her landings.

http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr6bh.wmv

Note the second video here is a challenge, you're supposed
to wait for the flames to move across, instead of out running them.

http://jeffareid.net/tr/tr6sf.wmv

>> I've seen the vari distance issue already.

One "glitch" move for the CD games is Lara can fall just about
any distance and make a grab. AOD increased the distance Lara
could fall and grab, (Lara can drop and grab from level to
level in the disco), but in CD games, there doesn't seem to
be any limit for a grab distance. Similar to the side step
onto collapsable tile to "tranport" instead of "drop" to the
area below the tile for a no damage drop in the first 4 TR
games.

"jeffareid" <jeffareid.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UMHZk.56435$5L3.26199@newsfe09.iad...
>>> I've seen the vari distance issue already.
>
> One "glitch" move for the CD games is Lara can fall just about
> any distance and make a grab. AOD increased the distance Lara
> could fall and grab, (Lara can drop and grab from level to
> level in the disco), but in CD games, there doesn't seem to
> be any limit for a grab distance. Similar to the side step
> onto collapsable tile to "tranport" instead of "drop" to the
> area below the tile for a no damage drop in the first 4 TR
> games.
>
>
I've seen that a few times already. And then just a hop to the ground of
less distance kills her. Imagine that!

CONSOLE limitation! )

McG.