good supplier of rotary switch for spinner control?

Yes I know the Atari paddles and probably the arcade versions were
pots. I found some encoder wheels that are "hi res" - more pulses per
rotation. Will have to give one a try.

Mark C. Spaeth wrote:
> In rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Mad Scientist Jr <usenet_daughter RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> : I am playing with spinner controls that use quadrature. I wired up an
> : Atari driving controller but it seems the "resolution" is too low - you
> : have to turn the knob a whole lot just to register one state change.
> : I'm looking for the same kind of switch but more sensitive (the state
> : changes in a smaller amount of turn) for games like Pong or Breakout.
> : Can anyone recommend a good rotary switch model / manufacturer? Thanks
>
> Pong and breakout use a potentiometer and a crute ADC, not a quadrature
> encoder.
>
> If you want more pulses per rotation, you need to use gears to make
> the encoder wheel spin faster, like arkanoid did, or use a giant encoder
> wheel with many more pulses per rotation, like tempest.
>
> --
> Mark Spaeth mspaeth RemoveThis @mtl.mit.edu
> 50 Vassar St., #38.265 mspaeth RemoveThis @mit.edu
> Cambridge, MA 02139
> (617) 452-2354 http://rgvac.978.org/~mspaeth

In article <1124829674.504427.323400 RemoveThis @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Mad Scientist Jr <usenet_daughter RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>I am playing with spinner controls that use quadrature. I wired up an
>Atari driving controller but it seems the "resolution" is too low - you
>have to turn the knob a whole lot just to register one state change.
>I'm looking for the same kind of switch but more sensitive (the state
>changes in a smaller amount of turn) for games like Pong or Breakout.
>Can anyone recommend a good rotary switch model / manufacturer? Thanks

I'm not really sure what differenct quadrature will make in this case, but
I'll take a shot at your problem. Check hom many ohms of resistance the
spinner potentiometer is supposed to have. As I recall the Atari paddles
and driving controllers werr 500 ohms. PC Joysticks use 150 ohms. I once
hooked an IBM PC joystick up to an Atari 5200 in hopes that it would make
a better joystick, the cursor in missle command just kinda hung out in a
little box on the upper left corner.
--
Jim Leek
jrleek RemoveThis @soda.berkeley.edu

In rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Mad Scientist Jr <usenet_daughter RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
: I am playing with spinner controls that use quadrature. I wired up an
: Atari driving controller but it seems the "resolution" is too low - you
: have to turn the knob a whole lot just to register one state change.
: I'm looking for the same kind of switch but more sensitive (the state
: changes in a smaller amount of turn) for games like Pong or Breakout.
: Can anyone recommend a good rotary switch model / manufacturer? Thanks

Pong and breakout use a potentiometer and a crute ADC, not a quadrature
encoder.

If you want more pulses per rotation, you need to use gears to make
the encoder wheel spin faster, like arkanoid did, or use a giant encoder
wheel with many more pulses per rotation, like tempest.

--
Mark Spaeth mspaeth RemoveThis @mtl.mit.edu
50 Vassar St., #38.265 mspaeth RemoveThis @mit.edu
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 452-2354 http://rgvac.978.org/~mspaeth

In planning for the worst (that a mechanical rotary encoder with high
enough resolution doesn't exist) - does anyone have any idea how to
build this crude ADC? It would need to read a pot (I would probably
just use the atari paddles, which are ... 1 MOhm?) and translate the
value into an 8-bit number (0-255) - that is open or close 8 bits.
Actually that sucks, as it would take up 8 inputs just to read a paddle
- that's more than a joystick! Quadrature is so much better. Maybe I'll
use gears if I don't find a mechanical encoder with enough pules per
revolution (PPR).

Mark C. Spaeth wrote:
> In rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Mad Scientist Jr <usenet_daughter.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> : I am playing with spinner controls that use quadrature. I wired up an
> : Atari driving controller but it seems the "resolution" is too low - you
> : have to turn the knob a whole lot just to register one state change.
> : I'm looking for the same kind of switch but more sensitive (the state
> : changes in a smaller amount of turn) for games like Pong or Breakout.
> : Can anyone recommend a good rotary switch model / manufacturer? Thanks
>
> Pong and breakout use a potentiometer and a crute ADC, not a quadrature
> encoder.
>
> If you want more pulses per rotation, you need to use gears to make
> the encoder wheel spin faster, like arkanoid did, or use a giant encoder
> wheel with many more pulses per rotation, like tempest.
>
> --
> Mark Spaeth mspaeth.DeleteThis@mtl.mit.edu
> 50 Vassar St., #38.265 mspaeth.DeleteThis@mit.edu
> Cambridge, MA 02139
> (617) 452-2354 http://rgvac.978.org/~mspaeth

wow, that one looks pro... for $89.95 it is a little cost-prohibitive
for my purposes. thanks though, that may come in handy for some other
project

TBParrotHead wrote:
> For a good spinner, I recommend the Tornado by SlikStik. USB or PS2.
> Plugs right in and off you go.
>
> http://www.slikstik.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=4
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Mad Scientist Jr wrote:
> > I am playing with spinner controls that use quadrature. I wired up an
> > Atari driving controller but it seems the "resolution" is too low - you
> > have to turn the knob a whole lot just to register one state change.
> > I'm looking for the same kind of switch but more sensitive (the state
> > changes in a smaller amount of turn) for games like Pong or Breakout.
> > Can anyone recommend a good rotary switch model / manufacturer? Thanks
> >

For a good spinner, I recommend the Tornado by SlikStik. USB or PS2.
Plugs right in and off you go.

http://www.slikstik.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=4

Enjoy!

Mad Scientist Jr wrote:
> I am playing with spinner controls that use quadrature. I wired up an
> Atari driving controller but it seems the "resolution" is too low - you
> have to turn the knob a whole lot just to register one state change.
> I'm looking for the same kind of switch but more sensitive (the state
> changes in a smaller amount of turn) for games like Pong or Breakout.
> Can anyone recommend a good rotary switch model / manufacturer? Thanks
>

Atari PONG paddles just hang off one end of a 555 timer.Then the 555
pulse gets measured into a up-counter IIRC.

Still not sure what you're trying to do, but there are inexpensive
8-bit ADCs out there. Do you understand the difference between a wiper
POT and a rotary encoder?

You may try pinging Darren Harris and explaining to him what you're
trying to do.

- Craig

Basically I'm building a paddle interface for a pong game. The
requirements are I am limited to 2 inputs (via keypresses to my PC, the
controllers are wired to a keyboard controller) + 1 input for fire
button. I understand how a rotary encoder works, using quadrature to
send a 2-bit signal so the software can tell what direction it was
turned. A pot instead sends resistance to a DAC which converts it to a
digital value, for exampe 8-bit would be a value 0-255. This takes up
too many inputs/keys on my keyboard (8 keys per paddle + 1 for fire),
whereas with wiring up my Atari 2600 driving controller I am able to
read it with 2 bits + 1 for fire. The problem with the driving
controller is the resolution is too low (16 pulses per rev) which means
you have to turn the thing a lot to move a little. The atari paddles
respond in such a way where less than 1 rev can move the paddle all the
way across the screen, so I am looking for a higher res encoder. I did
the math and need about 256 pulses per revolution. However even 128 bit
optical encoders such as
http://www.potentiometer.com/600.pdf
cost $50, and I need 2x that resolution.
Therefore building an interface for existing atari 2600 paddles using a
PIC controller which reads the pot value, and mimics quadrature, is a
cheaper solution. It's not as reliable as using an optical encoder
directly but my target cost is $5 a paddle. Anyway thanks for
listening.

Craig Yarbrough wrote:
> Atari PONG paddles just hang off one end of a 555 timer.Then the 555
> pulse gets measured into a up-counter IIRC.
>
> Still not sure what you're trying to do, but there are inexpensive
> 8-bit ADCs out there. Do you understand the difference between a wiper
> POT and a rotary encoder?
>
> You may try pinging Darren Harris and explaining to him what you're
> trying to do.
>
> - Craig

Mad Scientist Jr wrote:
> In planning for the worst (that a mechanical rotary encoder with high
> enough resolution doesn't exist) - does anyone have any idea how to
> build this crude ADC? It would need to read a pot (I would probably
> just use the atari paddles, which are ... 1 MOhm?) and translate the
> value into an 8-bit number (0-255) - that is open or close 8 bits.
> Actually that sucks, as it would take up 8 inputs just to read a paddle
> - that's more than a joystick! Quadrature is so much better. Maybe I'll
> use gears if I don't find a mechanical encoder with enough pules per
> revolution (PPR).

Check out this page: http://www.mindaugas.com/products/MJoy16-C1/

It has 8 axes at 10 bit resolution, as well as 64 buttons, 16 toggle
switches, 4 rotary switches, and an 8-way hat switch, all for $40US!!!
(.....and yes, once I get enough room to work on it, I /will/ be buying
one (or more) of these for /my/ MAMEcab.)

--
Thnik about it!
Deadly_Dad

mistime.RemoveThis@uprightingv.org
worrier.RemoveThis@Cercosporella.resighd.edu
buprestid.RemoveThis@overquietnessi.tp
uninstructed.RemoveThis@supercanonicalv.su
thiobacteria.RemoveThis@Ibseniteg.mil

How about this:

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/vortex/

It is a direct replacement for the encoder whell used in the Tempest
arcade game - don't know if it will be a high enough resolution for
you, but the sucker should spin pretty well. Though it doesn't look
cheap...

Another idea would be to hack apart a mouse (the kind that has a ball
in it, not an optical).