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Since: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 1569
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(Msg. 106) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>rpg, others (more info?)
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2006, mace wrote:
> What is truly ridiculous is that you can be shooting your heart out
> without a noticeable effect! Guess the game.
If this is supposed to be against Bloodlines I don't get it. I played a
ranged Toreador without problems...
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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Since: Jun 13, 2005
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(Msg. 107) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Xocyll wrote:
> Why? Guns have moving parts that can jam, but a hunk of metal is just a
> hunk of metal.
But if the hunk of metal hits another hard hunk of metal it will break
eventually...
> that's just a symptom of the living biosphere they tried to make.
I agree with that intension but they failed with the execution.
> Well ok, you're changing things - the designers on the other hand worked
> on the dribble the weapons out through the game - heaven forbid a
> character might get hold of a good weapon early.
I think this is valid for any typical FPS and I don't think this is much
different with RPGs. Could you get a good weapon in SS2 from the start?
Even if you did you probably couldn't fire _one_ shot without the skill!
> Those submachine guns in the parking garage
Yep, these are in 2.8 now as well  . But two or three occasions in the
whole game where this became obvious still beats using a f****** wrench
most of the time because of the SS2 "design features"!
> And it's a far worse flaw than the one in SS2.
I don't know which flaw you mean but if you mean the non stakeable weapons
that is no flaw but again FPS tradition. I never heard anyone complaining
about this with Doom or Half-Life where it is the same: if you find a gun
you will only take the ammo, if you find a melee weapon you own you won't
take it. Sure this may be different in traditional RPGs but Bloodlines is
a hybrid and uses the FPS scheme with the whole inventory. After all, the
early weapons you find wouldn't have made much money anyway and this way
at least you don't spend half the game time on the inventory screen and
not in the game world like it's possible with SS2, DX or Oblivion  ...
BTW, the flaw I meant is rather a real bug in that you can't see the same
items in the inventory screen and a container at the same time. But you
probably never noticed that like with much of the other Bloodlines bugs.
> Not knowing how to use it properly and/or weapons having implanted
> circuitry (and presumably the soldier also having implants) that won't
> let him use something he's not qualified for.
Yeah, that must have been some really high tech weapons then with
integrated chips but breaking after three shots. But I'm sure one can
techno-babble that feature away as well .
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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Since: Jun 13, 2005
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(Msg. 108) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Bent C Dalager wrote:
> Perhaps he's just out shopping for his mom or something.
Yeah , I didn't like the whole idea of being able to get weapons and
ammo out of some standard dispenser on a spaceship. Why should they need
these to be available so open in the first place? Was this the same in
SS1? Was this explained somehow and I missed it or forgot it already?
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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Since: Jan 20, 2006
Posts: 436
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(Msg. 109) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608221527220.30948 DeleteThis @cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de>,
Werner Spahl <spahl DeleteThis @cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>Yeah , I didn't like the whole idea of being able to get weapons and
>ammo out of some standard dispenser on a spaceship. Why should they need
>these to be available so open in the first place?
One wonders why one would want to keep handheld artillery on a
spaceship anyway
Do they carry stingers, bazookas and whatnot onboard modern boomers?
> Was this the same in
>SS1?
Can't remember. I've got to play that again next time I'm in a
nostalgic mood . . .
> Was this explained somehow and I missed it or forgot it already?
Can't remember that either.
Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd DeleteThis @pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
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Posts: 1569
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(Msg. 110) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:18 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, mace wrote:
> So, at least, at the start of the game the guns were totally,
> ridiculously useless.
I think this is not so much a problem of the guns as of the missing
headshot in Bloodlines. Or could you kill the same guy with one stab
of a knife? Maybe they reduced the combat damage to make the verbal
alternatives more attractive instead of turning it into another FPS.
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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Since: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 1569
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(Msg. 111) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Werner Spahl wrote:
> I think this is not so much a problem of the guns as of the missing
> headshot in Bloodlines. Or could you kill the same guy with one stab
> of a knife?
P.S.: Just remembered that you can indeed do a one stab stealth kill. So
it's strange that they didn't implemented a Headshot for ranged players.
Well, no game is perfect ...
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships |
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Since: May 22, 2006
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 112) Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>Yeah , I didn't like the whole idea of being able to get weapons and
>>ammo out of some standard dispenser on a spaceship. Why should they need
>>these to be available so open in the first place?
>
>
> One wonders why one would want to keep handheld artillery on a
> spaceship anyway
>
> Do they carry stingers, bazookas and whatnot onboard modern boomers?
>
>
>>Was this the same in
>>SS1?
>
>
> Can't remember. I've got to play that again next time I'm in a
> nostalgic mood . . .
>
>
>>Was this explained somehow and I missed it or forgot it already?
>
>
> Can't remember that either.
>
> Cheers
> Bent D
I think it was mentioned during the game that when the situation
detiorated, many people began hacking the dispensers to get weapons.
This was further aided by the inefficient security measures of the buggy
main AI, Xerxes.
With a nanite-replicator system like that it is a moot point if heavy
weapons belong on a space ship- when the situation warranted it, I guess
they could create almost any weapon from scratch, as long as someone had
the proper clearance and blueprints. |
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Since: Aug 01, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 113) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:17 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 1809
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(Msg. 114) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:19 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Werner Spahl wrote:
> See above, I liked it and maybe they tried to get the FPS crowd into
> the RPG realm by removing the tedious inventory managment normally
> associated with those. Again, I would like to see a statistic of
> in-inventory-time vs in-game-time for some RPGs one day! Also
> Bloodlines never cared about size of inventory or weight of carried
> items which marks it as hybrid as well.
But us RPG types just *loooooovvvveee* farting around with the inventory!
Item management to us is often as much of a game as the game, hehe.
--
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(Msg. 115) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, mace wrote:
> You really don't get it, do you. The point here is that every game has
> its flaws but those 'minor glitches' usually don't affect the wholeness
> of a game. Like those, your beloved, features in SS2 which were
> "corrected" in the patch anyway. Really good games are something way,
> way more than the sum of the parts - like SS2 was.
Well, these 'minor glitches' did affect the wholeness of the game for me
and enough people to issue the patch in the first place and if you are
looking at it that way, the sum of the bad SS2 parts added up for me to
make the game as a whole worse than it would be without them. But then I
didn't know SS1 and tastes are different. Thread closed?
> What was turning me away from Bloodlines, at the time, was that
> horrible DX:IW flashback with the most prop-like, unnatural,
> artificial, cramped,...settings of the first level in the game.
You mean the Santa Monica street? Granted, a game like Bloodlines with
wide open levels would be much better, but I don't see anything on the
horizon like this and playtesting it would be like hell !
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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Since: Jun 13, 2005
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(Msg. 116) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:37 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>action (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> reprogram (hack) the dispenser so it would give you bullets instead of
How would you do that if the dispenser had the bullet plans not already in
it? Which leads to the same question: why does it know how to do weapons?
> There were no dispensers in System Shock 1; you scavenged for bullets
> and weapons by killing monsters and looting storerooms.
Now that would be the usual thing to exspect for a game and fine with me.
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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Since: Jan 20, 2006
Posts: 436
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(Msg. 117) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:46 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>rpg, others (more info?)
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In article <4l0p1vFdt6ebU1.DeleteThis@news.dfncis.de>,
Markus Schäfer <markus.schaefer.DeleteThis@rub.de> wrote:
>
>With a nanite-replicator system like that it is a moot point if heavy
>weapons belong on a space ship- when the situation warranted it, I guess
>they could create almost any weapon from scratch, as long as someone had
>the proper clearance and blueprints.
You are right, I had forgotten this. The vending machines actually
manufactured the stuff on demand.
This brings back to me one of the stranger features of the game: if
you died, you could be replicated and brought back to life at a
replication booth thingie, costing you a small amount of nanites to do
so (15?). For some reason, this revival booth could replicate you and
all your equipment at a pittance while replacing your gear from
vending machines would have been exceedingly expensive. _I_ wouldn't
have wasted my time hacking the vending machines in this case - I'd
have gone straight for the high-performance revival booth
Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd.DeleteThis@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
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Posts: 436
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(Msg. 118) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:52 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrneenrt6.15q.zed RemoveThis @resonant.org>,
Zed Pobre <zed RemoveThis @debian.org> wrote:
> (...)
>
>I've been told that the weapon is no longer in production, and the
>company has ceased to exist. Still, whenever I play SS2 I can't help
>but think of it.
Ok, so this brings us another possible explanation why the weapons in
SS2 were so fragile: they were manufacted by hacked low-quality
vending machines originally intended only for candy and cigarettes.
These machines could make weapons, sort of, but they'd be real low
quality and would wear out real fast.
Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd RemoveThis @pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
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Since: Jan 20, 2006
Posts: 436
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(Msg. 119) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>action (more info?)
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In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608231036120.29307.TakeThisOut@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de>,
Werner Spahl <spahl.TakeThisOut@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>> reprogram (hack) the dispenser so it would give you bullets instead of
>
>How would you do that if the dispenser had the bullet plans not already in
>it?
Perhaps you uploaded them as part of the hack, and which weapons a
given machine could do depended more on the type of machine and
available nanite types than anything else.
>Which leads to the same question: why does it know how to do weapons?
You teach it.
Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd.TakeThisOut@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
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(Msg. 120) Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: EA developing System Shock 3 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>rpg, others (more info?)
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Bent C Dalager wrote:
> These machines could make weapons, sort of, but they'd be real low
> quality and would wear out real fast.
Ok, but why then would weapons break as soon as you took them from an
enemy and never break for them, IIRC?
--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
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