Still confused over dual scheduling conflicts....

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:26:31 -0700 (PDT), SoHillsGuy wrote:
> I've had one of the Series 2 dual tuners for a year now, but everyone
> once in a while, I'm still confused over some of the conflicts that
> arise on the To Do List, when I think there shouldn't be.
>
> The basics, just for the record: As I understand it, these dual
> recorders can record two non-digital cable channel on my system (the
> lower numbers), or one cable (low) and one digital (high numbers).
> Usually, that's no problem.
>
> But today, it threw me another problem, which serves as a good example
> of unexplained conflicts.
>
> Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
> channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
> Fine, no problem. But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
> minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
> with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.
>
> Shouldn't these two be recording independent of each other, since
> they're on different tuners?

How do you know they're on different tuners? Does the tuner with digital
cable access NOT have the FOX channel available?

--
67. No matter how many shorts we have in the system, my guards will be
instructed to treat every surveillance camera malfunction as a
full-scale emergency.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

On or about Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:26:31 -0700 (PDT) did SoHillsGuy
<jerrygref.DeleteThis@comcast.net> dribble thusly:

>Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
>channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
>Fine, no problem. But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
>minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
>with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.
>
>Shouldn't these two be recording independent of each other, since
>they're on different tuners?

I can only say that on my Series3, recording them on different tuners is
exactly what would happen. It will even record a third program that starts at
the same time as the second, but lop off the first minute.

My two tuners are each capable of recording the same channels, though, and it
sounds like things are different with the Series2. However, I agree that it
should be able to record them both independently.

On Sep 17, 6:16 pm, B <b... DeleteThis @invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 9/17/2008 10:26 AM, SoHillsGuy wrote:
>
> > I've had one of the Series 2 dual tuners for a year now, but everyone
> > once in a while, I'm still confused over some of the conflicts that
> > arise on the To Do List, when I think there shouldn't be.
>
> > The basics, just for the record:  As I understand it, these dual
> > recorders can record two non-digital cable channel on my system (the
> > lower numbers), or one cable (low) and one digital (high numbers).
> > Usually, that's no problem.
>
> > But today, it threw me another problem, which serves as a good example
> > of unexplained conflicts.
>
> > Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
> > channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
> > Fine, no problem.  But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
> > minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
> > with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.
>
> > Shouldn't these two be recording independent of each other, since
> > they're on different tuners?
>
> > thanks...
>
> I don't know how your Series 2 is recording any digital stations.  The
> Series 2 records analog signals.

It's digital cable. At least that's what it's called. Everything
over channel 99 comes through a box, as opposed to 1-98, which comes
in to the Tivo on both the cable and box.

> In any case, it sounds like your original scheduling intended to use the
> same tuner for the two programs which was no problem since there was no
> overlap.  When you tried to MODIFY the first schedule there was now an
> overlap on that tuner.
>
> If you delete the second program and add it back in it should use the
> other tuner for the second program since the first tuner won't be
> available for the first minute.

Nope. Tried that, and it's still showing a conflict.

Just for the record, I want to throw this fact into the mix. As I
have said above, all of the channels from 1-98 actually show up twice
in my master list of available channels, with one listed as CABLE and
one listed as BOX. I deselected all of these duplicate 1-98 listings
in the BOX format, since they seem redundant. I can't imagine this is
part of the problem, but is it?

As I said in my original post, the dual tuner Tivo is set up to record
either a) two cable channels at once, or b) one cable and one box. I
have no problem -- most of the time -- recording two channels only
listed on my available channel list as "cable."

On 9/17/2008 10:26 AM, SoHillsGuy wrote:
> I've had one of the Series 2 dual tuners for a year now, but everyone
> once in a while, I'm still confused over some of the conflicts that
> arise on the To Do List, when I think there shouldn't be.
>
> The basics, just for the record: As I understand it, these dual
> recorders can record two non-digital cable channel on my system (the
> lower numbers), or one cable (low) and one digital (high numbers).
> Usually, that's no problem.
>
> But today, it threw me another problem, which serves as a good example
> of unexplained conflicts.
>
> Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
> channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
> Fine, no problem. But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
> minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
> with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.
>
> Shouldn't these two be recording independent of each other, since
> they're on different tuners?
>
> thanks...
>
>
I don't know how your Series 2 is recording any digital stations. The
Series 2 records analog signals.

In any case, it sounds like your original scheduling intended to use the
same tuner for the two programs which was no problem since there was no
overlap. When you tried to MODIFY the first schedule there was now an
overlap on that tuner.

If you delete the second program and add it back in it should use the
other tuner for the second program since the first tuner won't be
available for the first minute.

Bernie

I just wanted to pass along some information that seems to have solved
my problem.

I posted the same message on one of the Tivo help forums, and someone
said there was a bug in one of the updates about a year ago which
caused some new Season Passes to be treated as BOX channels instead of
CABLE channels.

This perfectly explains my problem, as I only set up this new DT Tivo
a year ago this month. It also explains why the warnings I was
getting was telling me I couldn't schedule two BOX channels at once,
when I clearly wasn't trying to do that.

I erased the questionable Season Pass in my problem, and set up a new
copy.

This time, the Tivo had no issues with the conflict.

Thanks for the suggestions I received, though.

SoHillsGuy wrote:
> I've had one of the Series 2 dual tuners for a year now, but everyone
> once in a while, I'm still confused over some of the conflicts that
> arise on the To Do List, when I think there shouldn't be.
>
> The basics, just for the record: As I understand it, these dual
> recorders can record two non-digital cable channel on my system (the
> lower numbers), or one cable (low) and one digital (high numbers).
> Usually, that's no problem.
>
> But today, it threw me another problem, which serves as a good example
> of unexplained conflicts.
>
> Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
> channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
> Fine, no problem. But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
> minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
> with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.
>
> Shouldn't these two be recording independent of each other, since
> they're on different tuners?
>
> thanks...

On mine, (low/cable and high with a box/ir blaster) check for the input
(mine lets me select box or cable), only the first tuner can do the box
thing, here in the baltimore md area, the DC stations moved from the lower
(<100) channels to the digital tier fox for house was 5 for dc/45 Balt, and
went to 15/Balt 193/DC... My season passes just had the name, and not a
manual by time channel, so when the stations changed, it started recording
twice, once from basic cable and also by box... Oddly enuf, i was also
trying to record house and eureka, but got a screwup, cuz it was trying to
do two houses AND eureka at the same time (wanted three tuners instead of
two)... Just happened this week when the new houses started. Solved it by
just making it a manual by time channel instead of the season pass

On Sep 18, 5:00 pm, B <b....TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Glad you got this problem resolved.  Just to help in understanding for
> the future:
> The channels below 100 are analog channels and your Tivo can tune them
> directly.  Channels 100 and above are digital channels and require the
> cable box (you didn't mention using a cable box in your original post).
>
> In your setup, you apparently have one tuner on your Tivo set to record
> directly from the cable, and the other tuner set to record from your
> cable box.  As long as your programs are available in both formats you
> can record one on each tuner.


Well, I knew all of that, but thanks.

On 9/17/2008 11:32 PM, SoHillsGuy wrote:
> I just wanted to pass along some information that seems to have solved
> my problem.
>
> I posted the same message on one of the Tivo help forums, and someone
> said there was a bug in one of the updates about a year ago which
> caused some new Season Passes to be treated as BOX channels instead of
> CABLE channels.
>
> This perfectly explains my problem, as I only set up this new DT Tivo
> a year ago this month. It also explains why the warnings I was
> getting was telling me I couldn't schedule two BOX channels at once,
> when I clearly wasn't trying to do that.
>
> I erased the questionable Season Pass in my problem, and set up a new
> copy.
>
> This time, the Tivo had no issues with the conflict.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions I received, though.
Glad you got this problem resolved. Just to help in understanding for
the future:
The channels below 100 are analog channels and your Tivo can tune them
directly. Channels 100 and above are digital channels and require the
cable box (you didn't mention using a cable box in your original post).

In your setup, you apparently have one tuner on your Tivo set to record
directly from the cable, and the other tuner set to record from your
cable box. As long as your programs are available in both formats you
can record one on each tuner.

> Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
> channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
> Fine, no problem. But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
> minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
> with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.

Curiously I've seen the same problem, but with two digital channels (on FIOS
using cablecards). And it was due to trying to 'pad' the ending of House.
The SP setup had House and then Fringe back to back on the same channel
while Eureka was on a different one. I seem to recall it being able to
extend one program on the same channel and not have an overlap problem.
That is, the 1st program gets it's full recording while the 2nd one starts
as planned (effectively recording the extended segment twice).

It would appear the conflict managing options aren't as smart as they need
to be.

-Bill Kearney

Bill Kearney wrote:
>> Next Tuesday, I've got "House" set from 8-9 pm on Fox (a low, cable
>> channel), and "Eureka" on SciFi from 9-10 on a high digital number.
>> Fine, no problem. But today, I tried to pad "House" by an extra
>> minute to 9:01, and now the Tivo is telling me that this conflicts
>> with "Eureka" and will no longer record that.
>
> Curiously I've seen the same problem, but with two digital channels
> (on FIOS using cablecards). And it was due to trying to 'pad' the
> ending of House. The SP setup had House and then Fringe back to back
> on the same channel while Eureka was on a different one. I seem to
> recall it being able to extend one program on the same channel and
> not have an overlap problem. That is, the 1st program gets it's full
> recording while the 2nd one starts as planned (effectively recording
> the extended segment twice).
> It would appear the conflict managing options aren't as smart as they
> need to be.
>
> -Bill Kearney

Seems to Have something to do with the timing of shows recently too... they
used to end on time and then have commercials, now they have commercials and
then go back and show the end of the show and coming attractions (look at
house this/last week, last minute of the show had house and wilson talking,
then next week stuff, instead of commercials at the end like last season,
now they have commercials first and the last minute of the show after the
commercials and that gets cut off unless you extend the time, but of course
that messes up the show after that...

Solution/Jury Rig, on non broadcast stuff (like sci-fi usa/history/etc,
shows are usually repeated for the west coasters, schedule the recording
when it repeats 3 hours later with an extended time) or do what I did and go
a bit nuts bidding on ebay, now I have 4 dual tuner tivos, can record 8
things, and no writers strike this year!

ps, did you/or your cable co add new channls/hd by any chance? sci-fi used
to be sd/ed on channel 31, now they added/its also on scifiHD on channel
234, so my sp tries to make it use the box, that's when i changed the sp to
record eureka on 234 at 12 with an extended time...That seems to at least
make it work for this week.....

A few things in this thread puzzle me:

* Cable providers transmit several streams in a single digital
channel. Only one tuner is required to capture the entire
content of a cable channel. Whenever two shows scheduled to be
recorded will be sent in the same channel at the same time, the
other tuner should still be available.

My non-TiVo capture device does this and its player allows
the viewer to select which stream will be viewed at
playback.

* Conflict resolution should never result in the cancellation of
one show for the sake of a few minutes overrun in another.
Priority settings, or another user rule (such as: always record
the overrun and clip the beginning), should be adequate to
determine which show will be truncated.

Although I use neither Vista nor MS' Media Center, I'm
pretty
sure I noticed this feature before discarding them for other
reasons.

* Conflict is illogical when the recordings are for two
consecutive shows in the same stream. The only thing to be
resolved here is which recording gets truncated and which gets
extended - as above; or more simply to extend the recording time
of the first to include the second.

I use the latter method on certain nights of the week recording
5 HD streams, and a couple of tag-along SD streams, on only two
tuners between 7 PM and 12:45 AM. Of course it helps to not
only be able to select the streams later but to easily advance a
stream in 30 minute jumps.

Among these 28.75 hours of HDTV recordings there may only be a
few shows of interest but on occasion there are more and
sometimes pleasant surprises too. Conflicts and overruns have
very seldom been a concern.

> ps, did you/or your cable co add new channls/hd by any chance? sci-fi used
> to be sd/ed on channel 31, now they added/its also on scifiHD on channel
> 234, so my sp tries to make it use the box, that's when i changed the sp
> to record eureka on 234 at 12 with an extended time...That seems to at
> least make it work for this week.....

I'm not using a box. This is a TivoHD with two cablecards. That and I'm
not on cable, it's FIOS.

But yes, if your carrier changes channel numbers you'll need to create new
season passes. It would be convenient if there was a way to have the Tivo
do this in an easier fashion. I can sort of understand why but it's
annoying. Meanwhile, delete the current pass and recreate the 'same thing'
on the new channel.

Bill Kearney wrote:

>
> But yes, if your carrier changes channel numbers you'll need to
> create new season passes. It would be convenient if there was a way
> to have the Tivo do this in an easier fashion. I can sort of
> understand why but it's annoying. Meanwhile, delete the current pass
> and recreate the 'same thing' on the new channel.


That essentially was the point, to delete the old sp and create a new one,
some people don't, and when the channel lineup changes ocurr, or new
channels are added, the sp forces recordng on some unexpected channel and
can cause conflicts, (the sp's do automagically change to the new channels
when a lineup change occurs, if you record by a show name instead of a
time/channel)
when we went fios they just put a box in that converts the fiber optic stuff
to regular cable (and phone, annoying when the power goes out)....

At any rate, had a sp for new episodes of house, and one by time channel for
eureka, and when the new episode (of house) happened last week, it tried to
record it twice, once on the regular channel and once on the HD channel,
came up as a conflict with eureka..... no biggie, just somehing to watch for
when new shows start up if you have old sp's.... Just an annoyance that
specifically happened with new episodes of house, and eureka.....