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Worst Class Combo

 
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Shawn Wilson

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Since: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 82



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:12 pm
Post subject: Worst Class Combo
Archived from groups: alt>games>neverwinter-nights (more info?)

OK, we've seen the threads on best classes.

But, what do you think would be the worst class combo to take all the way
through the OC and HotU?

My vote is for Bard, Pale Master, Red Dragon Disciple.
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Lance Berg

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Since: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 2293



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Shawn Wilson wrote:

> OK, we've seen the threads on best classes.
>
> But, what do you think would be the worst class combo to take all the way
> through the OC and HotU?
>
> My vote is for Bard, Pale Master, Red Dragon Disciple.
>
>
Rogue/Wizard

Wizard is a decent class if you take it straight, but mix it with
another class and you end up pretty much wasting every level you put
into it, as your spell list is that of a much lower level
character,along with the DC (for resists) of that lower level wizard.

Meanwhile, rogue is a weak class as well, since most of the power of the
class lies in its sneak attack, which most (all?) undead and almost all
of the "boss" mobs you'll be fighting are immune to. Worse, without a
tank of some sort to grab the mob's attention, you won't be getting many
sneak attacks in anyway, and the NPC's in the official Bioware campaigns
aren't very good at tanking; they do all right at that job for ranged
attack PC's, but walk your rogue right in and try and stay behind the
bad guys? Guess who the bad guys will be concentrating on!

While a pure rogue is difficult enough, though, spending half his levels
on wizard means he gets even lower HPs, and even slower BaB progression,
and slower sneak attack progress (for what thats' worth, although as I
said, its not worth as much as you'd think)

Meanwhile, one of the other benefits of taking wizard along with another
class, being able to use their items (and particularly, spells) isn't
nearly as big a deal for this rogue/wizard, as the rogue has access to
the UMD skill which lets him use that stuff anyway (along with gear and
scrolls normally limited only to each of the other classes)

While I agree that Pale Master is one of the worst of the prestige
classes, I'm afraid it might be more useful to take PM levels than
wizard levels, for the rogue, as you get better hp than you would taking
those levels as wizard, although you do, to my suprise, end up on the
wizard BaB progression table.
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alordofchaos

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Since: Jun 06, 2005
Posts: 447



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Lance Berg wrote:
> Shawn Wilson wrote:
> > But, what do you think would be the worst class combo to take all the way
> > through the OC and HotU?

> While I agree that Pale Master is one of the worst of the prestige classes,

Arcane Archer is pretty sucky in NWN, too.

You could go (I think - haven't checked the prereqs):

Bard/Arcane Archer/Harper

(Yes, it's possible to have two PrCs if you meet the prereqs. Dunno if
the above is possible, but it seems so. I've done a Ranger/Weapon
Master/Shadow Dancer, but decided it was a little less interesting than
the usual Rogue/Ftr/Shadow Dancer I play)
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eudas

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Since: Nov 18, 2005
Posts: 71



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:27 am
Post subject: Re: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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This message is not archived
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Loren Pechtel

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Since: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 61



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:04 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:08:15 -0500, Lance Berg <emporer.TakeThisOut@dejazzd.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Shawn Wilson wrote:
>
>> OK, we've seen the threads on best classes.
>>
>> But, what do you think would be the worst class combo to take all the way
>> through the OC and HotU?
>>
>> My vote is for Bard, Pale Master, Red Dragon Disciple.
>>
>>
>Rogue/Wizard
>
>Wizard is a decent class if you take it straight, but mix it with
>another class and you end up pretty much wasting every level you put
>into it, as your spell list is that of a much lower level
>character,along with the DC (for resists) of that lower level wizard.

Splitting them is bad. Taking a few levels of rogue can be helpful,
though, at least if you exploit the ability to carry over unspent
skill points.

How about a wizard with a maxed UMD skill? All those clerical items
that were worthless suddenly become useable. How about monk items?
Late in HOTU I had a AC so high that I was only hit on a 20. Against
weaker opponents I was actually going into melee combat with a
crossbow! (I had 4 points/round of regeneration, the weak baddies
simply couldn't do enough damage to make me bother with the spells
that I would then have to rest--and likely spend berries on--to
regain.)
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Lance Berg

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Since: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 2293



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Shawn Wilson wrote:

> OK, we've seen the threads on best classes.
>
> But, what do you think would be the worst class combo to take all the way
> through the OC and HotU?
>
> My vote is for Bard, Pale Master, Red Dragon Disciple.
>
>
Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard

Assuming you take them evenly, at third level you'll be 1/1/1, with a +0
BaB, cantrip and level 1 sorcerer spells, cantrip and level 1 wizard
spells, and cantrip bard spells. Admittedly, he'd have a LOT of them
available, depending on his int and charisma... but he'd cast them all
as if first level, insofar as damage and DC for saves etc go.

Meanwhile, a pure wizard level 3 would have a +1 BaB (actually better at
non spell combat than the combo) and level 2 spells, which he'd cast
as if third level.

By the time you hit 9th level, you're a 3/3/3, with level 1 sorcerer and
bard spells and level 2 wizard spells, all cast as if third level,
meanwhile your BaB is a mighty +4

Meanwhile a pure wizard would have a +4 BaB (yep, the combo caught up)
and be casting level 5 spells as if level 9!

Starting HoTU you'd be 5/5/5, now you've got level 2 sorcerer and bard
spells, level 3 wizard spells... cast as if level 5, and lets see, a big
+7/+2 BaB

15 wizard, on the other hand has a BaB of +7/+2, still the same as the
combo... but while the combo guy is pretty much relegated to being a
pisspoor fighter with some tricks up his sleeves, the wizard is casting
level 8 spells as if he's level 15, and probably hasn't touched a weapon
since he was halfway thru the OC.

Lets see, at 18, while the combo is still on 3rd level spells, the pure
wizard has reached the top of his game and is laying down level 9
spells. By the end of HOTU, around level 27, the combo is 9/9/9,
looking at level 3 bard spells, level 4 sorcerer spells, and level 5
wizard spells.

Seems pretty bad Smile
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Dirk Dreidoppel

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Since: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 462



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> Seems pretty bad Smile

Hehe, jup, that is as bad as it gets. Some other combos mentioned in this
thread are even actually good if played (and built) right. The initial
Sorcerer/Red Dragon Disciple/Pale Master is actually pretty sweet for
example. Well, anything that has Red Dragon Disciple is. Exceptional
attributes, high AC and decent fighter if you took buffing spells. Try being
an offensive caster and you'll fail. Or Bard/Harper Scout/Arcane Archer: You
will be at least a level 15 Arcane Archer by the end of HotU, have one of
the highest ABs (not BAB) and do decent damage. You'll never be a very
powerful spellcaster so keep it to the minimum 5 Bard levels. Need 20 total
levels before being able to take Arcane Archer into Epic class levels, so
you may as well pick up that favored enemy from Harper.
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Lance Berg

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Since: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 2293



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Loren Pechtel wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:08:15 -0500, Lance Berg <emporer.TakeThisOut@dejazzd.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Shawn Wilson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OK, we've seen the threads on best classes.
>>>
>>>But, what do you think would be the worst class combo to take all the way
>>>through the OC and HotU?
>>>
>>>My vote is for Bard, Pale Master, Red Dragon Disciple.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Rogue/Wizard
>>
>>Wizard is a decent class if you take it straight, but mix it with
>>another class and you end up pretty much wasting every level you put
>>into it, as your spell list is that of a much lower level
>>character,along with the DC (for resists) of that lower level wizard.
>
>
> Splitting them is bad. Taking a few levels of rogue can be helpful,
> though, at least if you exploit the ability to carry over unspent
> skill points.
>
Yeah, I'm assuming a roughly even split on levels where possible, or in
the case of PrC's, coming as close as you can, given that you often
first have to blow a lot of levels just to qualify

> How about a wizard with a maxed UMD skill? All those clerical items
> that were worthless suddenly become useable. How about monk items?
> Late in HOTU I had a AC so high that I was only hit on a 20. Against
> weaker opponents I was actually going into melee combat with a
> crossbow! (I had 4 points/round of regeneration, the weak baddies
> simply couldn't do enough damage to make me bother with the spells
> that I would then have to rest--and likely spend berries on--to
> regain.)

You can also get UMD as a bard, although with just one level, I'm not
sure there's much distinction between bard and rogue.

Assuming you are going to be "saving up" skill points, one level of
either might be worth it though, as you say, UMD is a mighty useful
skill, and it happens wizard is an int based class, so you should be
able to save up quite a few skill points painlessly. Down side, you're
getting your higher level spells one level later, you're getting one
less die of effect on them, and your DC is a point lower. Not critical
weakening... but we're looking for worst combos, not best ones, here!

Lance
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Lance Berg

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Since: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 2293



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Class Combo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

alordofchaos.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Lance Berg wrote:
>
>>I'm not saying rogues are impossible to get thru the campaigns with, I
>>don't think there's a class out there that can't do it with some work.
>>I'm just looking for the worst one. And an unsupported rogue is pretty
>>high on that list IMO... but worse still, a rogue with a lower BaB
>>(because he's spent half his life on the wizard BaB table) and lower
>>sneak attack skill etc.
>
>
> Good point. but unsupported casters are sucky, too, for a while Smile
>
Oddly, most of my caster characters are never unsupported, because I
make a point of grabbing summon for them and keeping a pet up, and
likely a familiar/companion as well.

More to the point, its not as hard to have NPC's/pets hold the attention
of the mob when you're standing back at a distance casting the
occaisional spell, compared to coming in close to use your shortsword
cuisinart of doom plan.




>>Bard/Harper isnt' too bad, you can only spend at most 5 levels as harper
>>anyway,
>
>
> I haven't played either a bard or Harper Scout, but they looked totally
> uninteresting in a CRPG. The module or campaign would have to be
> heavily set towards actual role-play - bards strike me as support
> characters; an unsupported bard seems weaker than an unsupported rogue.
> Harper just seemed weak, too. I don't recall what they get besides
> Favoritie Enemy.
>
Bard is basically a wizard/rogue without quite so many of the downsides
of splitting classes. Take spells that buff fighting ability, prep for
battle, then put on your armor and go kill things. While you don't end
up with as high level a spell set as a real caster class would, you
don't suffer the "I'm a 20th level character casting my spells as if I
was a 10th level character" problems. From the rogue standpoint, yes,
you don't get the sneak attacks, but honestly they tend to not work
where you need them anyway, other than that, but you do get the same BaB
progression and access to most of the useful skills (including the holy
grail, UMD). If you want to play a meleeing caster, this isn't a bad
choice IMO.

Harper Scout, though, well I have a hard time thinking of anything good
to say about that PrC... unless you're in a module designed with it in
mind; it would be a fun twist to give you access to in game resources
based on your level as a Harper!

Lance
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