TR underworld my first impression

Erik Steffl wrote:
> IMO crystal dynamics is getting better with each game, legend I wasn't
> too sure about, then anniversary was more TR-like and now it seems like
> TR Underworld is even closer to TR core - exploration and puzzles. Only
> started so not sure about it yet...
>
> playing on PC, not a new one, nvidia 8800GTX (latest drivers), intel
> quad core, highest settings, mostly it works fine but here and there
> there are places where it stutters a bit
>
> control: playing it with xbox controller and even with camera relative
> movement the controls work pretty well,
>
> movement: she a LOT of little tiny animations, lot of alternatives
> etc. it's been pretty interesting to watch various moves during climbing
> etc. Was afraid she would be too automatic but IO it works pretty well
> now, not falling off all the time but it's not completely safe so one
> has to be careful. While it's a bit easier overall (so far) than back in
> the days of blocks she has a lot more options and there are still some
> challening jumps etc. As far as I can tell it's fairly good compromise
> between fluid movements and making to too easy.
>
> glass walls! those are annoying, there are lot of places where she is
> like a mime, hitting invisible walls with both hands Specially
> embarrasing on her boat (very beginning).
>
> slow walk/swim (somebody complained) - you can go faster, with xbox
> controller it's left button (above trigger), it tells you at some point
> in game if you have hints on.
>
> no hard core gymnastics moves though, there's the handstand when she
> climbs up but no flips etc. There is some acrobatics when she shoots,
> useful to avoid being hit (like in the good old days).
>
> saving: autosaves are everywhere so when you die you only repeat a
> little bit plus you can save anywhere (didn't figure out whether it
> actually saves at savepoint or at nearest autosave but given the number
> of autosaves it almost doesn't matter)
>
> fights headshots etc: so far handling everything with classic jumping
> around like crazy and shooting with pistols, it works out pretty well so
> far, ignoring fighting or headshots etc. hope I don't have to be worried
> about it.
>
> crashes: the sad part is that even with latest nvidia drivers it
> crashes my PC fairly often (other games do not so I think it's TR
> specific), once every few hours maybe.
>
> all in all I am pretty happy with the trend of last three TR game,
> they seem to actually improve them (not only visuals but the gameplay,
> game machanics etc.)
>
> still at the beginning (just got to thailand) so it's all subject to
> change
>
> what do you guys think?
>
> erik


Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the
same level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.

It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen
and play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.

I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
then and now that they took so many steps back??

> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the same
> level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>
> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen and
> play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>
> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
> then and now that they took so many steps back??

One thing that really bites - in Legend and Anniversary, there was a
key/button that would cause the camera to orient with the direction Lara was
facing. It was so very usefull - you turn Lara 90 degrees, push it, and the
camera would swing around to point to where she was facing. That seems to be
gone from UW...And what happened to the handstand when climbing up on stuff?
Even the demo did that.

John Whitworth wrote:
> "Erik Steffl" <steffl.DeleteThis@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:JO2dnYqaGqBI5LvUnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
>
>> crashes: the sad part is that even with latest nvidia drivers it crashes
>> my PC fairly often (other games do not so I think it's TR specific), once
>> every few hours maybe.
>
> Groan...mine's not arrived yet, but my rig is quad core and 8800GTX also. So
> looks like I'm in for some fun. What error/blue screen are you seeing? It's
> not the dreaded NVLDDMKM problem back again, is it?

not sure, probably not because that seems to be vista only, plus I
don't get the 10-15s freezing,

I see the regular windows blue screen of death, i.e. blue screen with
white error messages etc., it automatically reboots (will have to set it
not to but didn't get to it yet) so I don't know what exactly the error is.

thinking about it now it did happen before but very rarely (few times
only so far), with TR underworld it happens more often,

erik

J.H. wrote:
> Erik Steffl wrote:
....
>> all in all I am pretty happy with the trend of last three TR game,
>> they seem to actually improve them (not only visuals but the gameplay,
>> game machanics etc.)
>>
>> still at the beginning (just got to thailand) so it's all subject to
>> change
>>
>> what do you guys think?
>>
>> erik
>
>
> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the
> same level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>
> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen
> and play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>
> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
> then and now that they took so many steps back??

I read your other post too but it seems you are playing a different
game Her movement seems pretty good, actually that's what I am
pretty amazed with, lots of different animations and she seems to be
following the environment pretty closely, as opposed to having only few
animations that were used whether they made sense or not. Climbing and
jumping seems OK too.

she feels a bit faster than in previous games but I only noticed it
at the very beginning, I think it works ok during playing,

one big change I did is playing the new games (since crystal dynamics
took over) with gamepad, tried keyboard and mouse too but it just
doesn't work, maybe if you gave gamepad a chance...

erik

Zoot wrote:
>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the same
>> level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>
>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen and
>> play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>
>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
>> then and now that they took so many steps back??
>
> One thing that really bites - in Legend and Anniversary, there was a
> key/button that would cause the camera to orient with the direction Lara was
> facing. It was so very usefull - you turn Lara 90 degrees, push it, and the
> camera would swing around to point to where she was facing. That seems to be
> gone from UW...And what happened to the handstand when climbing up on stuff?
> Even the demo did that.

you can do handstand when climbing up, even though that particular
animation is not my favourite one...

erik

Erik Steffl wrote:
> J.H. wrote:
>> Erik Steffl wrote:
> ...
>>> all in all I am pretty happy with the trend of last three TR game,
>>> they seem to actually improve them (not only visuals but the
>>> gameplay, game machanics etc.)
>>>
>>> still at the beginning (just got to thailand) so it's all subject
>>> to change
>>>
>>> what do you guys think?
>>>
>>> erik
>>
>>
>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the
>> same level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>
>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen
>> and play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>
>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
>> then and now that they took so many steps back??
>
> I read your other post too but it seems you are playing a different
> game Her movement seems pretty good, actually that's what I am
> pretty amazed with, lots of different animations and she seems to be
> following the environment pretty closely, as opposed to having only few
> animations that were used whether they made sense or not. Climbing and
> jumping seems OK too.
>
> she feels a bit faster than in previous games but I only noticed it at
> the very beginning, I think it works ok during playing,
>
> one big change I did is playing the new games (since crystal dynamics
> took over) with gamepad, tried keyboard and mouse too but it just
> doesn't work, maybe if you gave gamepad a chance...
>
> erik

Well, I have given a gamepad a chance....and hated it. I'm just not a
console/gamepad person. I don't own a console. And won't. It's fine
with something like NFS, but for games like this.....nah.

You say the movements are quicker. I say they're jerky and stunted.
TRA and TRL had very smooth movements. I also think those two games are
the most thought out and bug free TR games ever. Not to mention the
horrible collision detection in this game.

I would really like to like it but it's too short, too easy and not
entirely interesting.

However! I did find a way to map the mouse button! WOO HOO! Of
course, I'm on the final battle, now that I know, and replayability is
NIL......but I'll copy and paste here what I learned in another forum.
Actually, I'll just link to it. There's also a bug in the game (well
no.....really??) that will allow you to survive really far falls. Which
I needed when the game screwed up and put what I needed to get to the
bottom AT the bottom of the level. Wasn't impressed.

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=137436 is how to map
your mouse....very handy. Huge thanks to Serevinus for that little gem!

"Erik Steffl" <steffl.TakeThisOut@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:I9OdneTGFNOmO7rUnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
> J.H. wrote:
>> Erik Steffl wrote:
> ...
>>> all in all I am pretty happy with the trend of last three TR game,
>>> they seem to actually improve them (not only visuals but the gameplay,
>>> game machanics etc.)
>>>
>>> still at the beginning (just got to thailand) so it's all subject to
>>> change
>>>
>>> what do you guys think?
>>>
>>> erik
>>
>>
>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the same
>> level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>
>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen and
>> play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>
>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
>> then and now that they took so many steps back??
>
> I read your other post too but it seems you are playing a different game
> Her movement seems pretty good, actually that's what I am pretty
> amazed with, lots of different animations and she seems to be following
> the environment pretty closely, as opposed to having only few animations
> that were used whether they made sense or not. Climbing and jumping seems
> OK too.
>
> she feels a bit faster than in previous games but I only noticed it at
> the very beginning, I think it works ok during playing,
>
> one big change I did is playing the new games (since crystal dynamics
> took over) with gamepad, tried keyboard and mouse too but it just doesn't
> work, maybe if you gave gamepad a chance...
>
> erik

Hi Erik!

I'm still pluggin away at the UW demo using keyboard and mouse. Controls
for k&m seem better than those in Legend. Don't know about TRA yet, just
got that demo, will install it and try it out.
I agree with you about the greater variety of anims. And about Lara being a
LOT more responsive to k&m. And, seems that there are more move combos.
Plus they're easy enough to figure out on the fly. The game world looks
even better. But I also hate those glass walls, they surprised me more than
the critters did.
I think I'm gonna go ahead and buy TRA and TRU. I already have all the
others.
McG.

"J.H." <justaguyhanginout.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:YDPVk.2244$jr4.1815@edtnps82...

>
> You say the movements are quicker. I say they're jerky and stunted. TRA
> and TRL had very smooth movements. I also think those two games are the
> most thought out and bug free TR games ever. Not to mention the horrible
> collision detection in this game.

That really sounds like low game framerates. You're on vista, right? x86?

Though it's just the TRU demo, I figure its the same engine. I don't know
what the fr's are on my system. I recall that you have a quadcore with
nVidia 8nnn video also?

I'm running it on a Q9550, GA EP45-DS3L mobo, 8 gigs PC8500 DDR2, BFG
8800GTX, DualView with 19" Sammy 930B secondary and Sammy 245T 24" ws
primary. XP Pro x64 sp2. nVidia 163.21 drivers I think. Running game in
1920x1200, no lagging, jerkiness or 'stuntedness' going on. Game plays
smooth as silk, maybe even a tad too fast. Anims look wonderful. Sure wish
I could play all the original TR's on this!
McG.

"Erik Steffl" <steffl.RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:I9OdnefGFNNKO7rUnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
> Zoot wrote:
>>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the
>>> same level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>>
>>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen
>>> and play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>>
>>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
>>> then and now that they took so many steps back??
>>
>> One thing that really bites - in Legend and Anniversary, there was a
>> key/button that would cause the camera to orient with the direction Lara
>> was facing. It was so very usefull - you turn Lara 90 degrees, push it,
>> and the camera would swing around to point to where she was facing. That
>> seems to be gone from UW...And what happened to the handstand when
>> climbing up on stuff? Even the demo did that.
>
> you can do handstand when climbing up, even though that particular
> animation is not my favourite one...
>
> erik

How? How about swan dive?
McG.

McG. wrote:
> "Erik Steffl" <steffl RemoveThis @bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:I9OdnefGFNNKO7rUnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
>> Zoot wrote:
>>>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>>>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the
>>>> same level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>>>
>>>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen
>>>> and play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>>>
>>>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
>>>> then and now that they took so many steps back??
>>> One thing that really bites - in Legend and Anniversary, there was a
>>> key/button that would cause the camera to orient with the direction Lara
>>> was facing. It was so very usefull - you turn Lara 90 degrees, push it,
>>> and the camera would swing around to point to where she was facing. That
>>> seems to be gone from UW...And what happened to the handstand when
>>> climbing up on stuff? Even the demo did that.
>> you can do handstand when climbing up, even though that particular
>> animation is not my favourite one...
>>
>> erik
>
> How? How about swan dive?

climb to handstand - not sure how sometime she does it but I
didn't figure out why yet...

not sure about swan dive, wasn't able to do different dives but
wasn't trying too much,

erik

McG. wrote:
> "J.H." <justaguyhanginout RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:YDPVk.2244$jr4.1815@edtnps82...
>
>> You say the movements are quicker. I say they're jerky and stunted. TRA
>> and TRL had very smooth movements. I also think those two games are the
>> most thought out and bug free TR games ever. Not to mention the horrible
>> collision detection in this game.
>
> That really sounds like low game framerates. You're on vista, right? x86?
>
> Though it's just the TRU demo, I figure its the same engine. I don't know
> what the fr's are on my system. I recall that you have a quadcore with
> nVidia 8nnn video also?
>
> I'm running it on a Q9550, GA EP45-DS3L mobo, 8 gigs PC8500 DDR2, BFG
> 8800GTX, DualView with 19" Sammy 930B secondary and Sammy 245T 24" ws
> primary. XP Pro x64 sp2. nVidia 163.21 drivers I think. Running game in
> 1920x1200, no lagging, jerkiness or 'stuntedness' going on. Game plays
> smooth as silk, maybe even a tad too fast. Anims look wonderful. Sure wish
> I could play all the original TR's on this!

yeah, I have the same impression, she's a bit faster than I'd expect
but definitely smooth, no jerkiness,

I don't see any problems with collision detection in general (other
then some unexpected glass walls, but strictly speaking that's not
collision detection, just unfinished level design)

erik

McG. wrote:
> "Erik Steffl" <steffl.RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:I9OdneTGFNOmO7rUnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
>> J.H. wrote:
>>> Erik Steffl wrote:
>> ...
>>>> all in all I am pretty happy with the trend of last three TR game,
>>>> they seem to actually improve them (not only visuals but the gameplay,
>>>> game machanics etc.)
>>>>
>>>> still at the beginning (just got to thailand) so it's all subject to
>>>> change
>>>>
>>>> what do you guys think?
>>>>
>>>> erik
>>>
>>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the same
>>> level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>>
>>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen and
>>> play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>>
>>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened between
>>> then and now that they took so many steps back??
>> I read your other post too but it seems you are playing a different game
>> Her movement seems pretty good, actually that's what I am pretty
>> amazed with, lots of different animations and she seems to be following
>> the environment pretty closely, as opposed to having only few animations
>> that were used whether they made sense or not. Climbing and jumping seems
>> OK too.
>>
>> she feels a bit faster than in previous games but I only noticed it at
>> the very beginning, I think it works ok during playing,
>>
>> one big change I did is playing the new games (since crystal dynamics
>> took over) with gamepad, tried keyboard and mouse too but it just doesn't
>> work, maybe if you gave gamepad a chance...
>>
>> erik
>
> Hi Erik!
>
> I'm still pluggin away at the UW demo using keyboard and mouse. Controls
> for k&m seem better than those in Legend. Don't know about TRA yet, just
> got that demo, will install it and try it out.

as far as I can tell controls are a little bit better in each of
crystal dynamics game, they are very similar but implementation seems a
bit better,

> I agree with you about the greater variety of anims. And about Lara being a

about the animations - first I didn't believe but now I watched for
it specifically, when she's on the ledge and there are these little tiny
cracks or little missing parts that were previously ignored now she
actually puts her hands on where the ledge actually exists, at the end
of the ledge then reaching for the next part of the ledge after the gap.
There used to be essentially one animation of movement along the ledge,
now she is placing hands where appropriate. Amazing.

> LOT more responsive to k&m. And, seems that there are more move combos.
> Plus they're easy enough to figure out on the fly. The game world looks
> even better. But I also hate those glass walls, they surprised me more than
> the critters did.

I read the reviews, most of them say the game is unpolished, the
glass walls are probably part of that, they don't seem to be needed by
engine, I mean in lot of places there are intricate objects etc. and
there are no glass walls and it works fine.

> I think I'm gonna go ahead and buy TRA and TRU. I already have all the
> others.

IMO TRU is the best of post-core games, TRA is second best, TRL I
didn't like that much (seemed more like a generic game, less of a TR game),

erik

J.H. wrote:
> Erik Steffl wrote:
>> J.H. wrote:
>>> Erik Steffl wrote:
>> ...
>>>> all in all I am pretty happy with the trend of last three TR game,
>>>> they seem to actually improve them (not only visuals but the
>>>> gameplay, game machanics etc.)
>>>>
>>>> still at the beginning (just got to thailand) so it's all subject
>>>> to change
>>>>
>>>> what do you guys think?
>>>>
>>>> erik
>>>
>>>
>>> Really? You're enjoying it? It's work. I feel bad for Lara. Yeah,
>>> she's pixels, but dang it the last two were so good! I expected the
>>> same level of animation and ability and what I got was AOD pt2. Blech.
>>>
>>> It's alright.....kills time. Sort of. I talk on oovoo on one screen
>>> and play TR on the other cause it's really not holding my interest.
>>>
>>> I really expected much better, is all. I wonder what happened
>>> between then and now that they took so many steps back??
>>
>> I read your other post too but it seems you are playing a different
>> game Her movement seems pretty good, actually that's what I am
>> pretty amazed with, lots of different animations and she seems to be
>> following the environment pretty closely, as opposed to having only
>> few animations that were used whether they made sense or not. Climbing
>> and jumping seems OK too.
>>
>> she feels a bit faster than in previous games but I only noticed it
>> at the very beginning, I think it works ok during playing,
>>
>> one big change I did is playing the new games (since crystal
>> dynamics took over) with gamepad, tried keyboard and mouse too but it
>> just doesn't work, maybe if you gave gamepad a chance...
>>
>> erik
>
> Well, I have given a gamepad a chance....and hated it. I'm just not a
> console/gamepad person. I don't own a console. And won't. It's fine
> with something like NFS, but for games like this.....nah.

well, I don't own a console either and in general prefer
keyboard/mouse but given the camera relative movement the ability to
move in any direction with gamepad (instead of one of four directions
with keyboard) helps a lot, IMO.

example: let's say lara is facing camera and you want to go where
lara is facing (it happens here and there in the game). So you pull
joystick back, lara goes towards camera, as she goes the angle changes
and you gradually move joystick to the left (or right, depending which
way she passes camera) until you go away from the camera (joystick
forward). You cannot do that using keyboard/mouse. This is extreme
example but there are lot of similar less extreme examples where fine
tuning direction helps.

the way game is designed apparently supports that mode of control,
the camera usually tends to slowly move to stay behind lara,

the other great advantage of having fine directional control is those
tight-rope style elements - if it's in the crammed space you cannot
always align camera behind lara but if you have fine directional cotnrol
of joystick you can still go straight (along the tight-rope, but angled
from camera view point).

I remember how extremely frustrated I was with prince of persia games
(played using keyboard/mouse), hating the camera, the movement,
everything not understanding how people play it at all. I never finished
the game but after my exprience with recent TR games I think the gamepad
would have made all the difference.

IMO: right tools for the problem, maybe try to disassociate gamepad
from consoles after all computers always had different input
devices, even specialized for different types of games (steering wheel,
joystick, freaky torture-device-like devices for flight simulators
etc.), there's no shame in using gamepad if game was designed to be
played with gamepad... (remember, this comes from somebody who also
prefers keyboard/mouse and doesn't see a need for owning a console)

> You say the movements are quicker. I say they're jerky and stunted. TRA
> and TRL had very smooth movements. I also think those two games are the

that might be some problem, I am pretty sure that it's not matter of
opinion, i.e. I think you don't see the same movements I see - what OS,
drivers, card etc. are you using? I am running it on win xp (latest
updates), intel quad core Q6600, nvidia 8800GTX (latest drivers), 2GB RAM

> most thought out and bug free TR games ever. Not to mention the
> horrible collision detection in this game.

can you elaborate on this a bit? as far as I can tell collision
detection is amazing, she considers tiny minute details of environment
in most places. Are you talking about the glass walls that exists here
and there?

> I would really like to like it but it's too short, too easy and not
> entirely interesting.

as far as I can tell you didn't finish it, how do you know it's too
short? (reviews said 10 hours but I already played almost that amount
and barely got to thailand)

erik