[SH] Today's battle report

<pbowles DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
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On 29 Aug, 20:07, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani... DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:
> <pbow... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
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> news:affc8d6f-6519-459f-9004-daebf5cbb61d@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...


>> will give it a full review and see if the "Space Hulk Campaigns" book is
>> compatible when I receive the new edition.

>How did the campaign rules differ? Could you just run a campaign using
>the standard missions but with a set batch of Marines at the start?

The campaigns were completely new maps and missions. The book is in the
closet right now but there were five or six campaigns of five or six
missions each.
If you lost a marine (which with the old dice was super easy) he was out of
the campaign. Stealers had no such rules: They got a set amount of blips
each mission. The Necromunda campaign was murder! There were also rules so
that you could play the entire campaign as one huge game. Never have tried
it, but I might now.


> > As for the timer, as I siad before I don't think a 90 second (or as it
> > seems to be now, 180 second) time limit should make that much
> > difference, when the only available options are move/shoot, overwatch
> > and movement is heavily constrained by the map layout - though I
> > suppose you need to be a quick roller... However, in missions with two
> > squads I can see it would be trickier.
>
> Phil: The timer does become a source of extreme sweat if you have made
> even
> one wrong move in an earlier turn.

>The missions definitely need to be trickier than Suicide, then - not
>only is it hard to make a wrong move there, it seems unlikely it would
>be critical if you made a wrong move with anyone except the flamer.

>>Or if the Stealer player gains control of
>> the CAT, or if you have to worry about the dropthroughs...

>??

? CAT ? Dropthroughs? If those rules are still in there you are in for it.
Anything about "Power Armoured" marines? That made for some fun. How about
the Hybrids:
"Expanded Blip H" represents a 3rd level psyker hybrid with a Conversion
Beamer (and number of genestealers). Just wait till the stealer player
converts that one on you... Then the timer starts to really matter...

Woof!

On 29 Aug, 22:06, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani....RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
> <pbow....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0547cb8c-20f1-4802-a091-ad249f4a7e89@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> On 29 Aug, 20:07, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani....RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > <pbow....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:affc8d6f-6519-459f-9004-daebf5cbb61d@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
> >> will give it a full review and see if the "Space Hulk Campaigns" book is
> >> compatible when I receive the new edition.
> >How did the campaign rules differ? Could you just run a campaign using
> >the standard missions but with a set batch of Marines at the start?
>
> The campaigns were completely new maps and missions. The book is in the
> closet right now but there were five or six campaigns of five or six
> missions each.

Sounds good - shame that didn't seem to make it into the book. Knowing
GW they'll stick it in GW over the next six months to milk players for
even more.

> If you lost a marine (which with the old dice was super easy)

Seems quite easy now if the 'Stealers ever get into combat - they get
3D6 pick the highest, Marines get D6, loser is killed. The 'Stealers I
was up against just got unlucky on the rare occasions they made it
into combat - 4 close combats, one 'Stealer victory.

he was out of
> the campaign. Stealers had no such rules: They got a set amount of blips
> each mission. The Necromunda campaign was murder!

What was Necromunda doing on a Space Hulk? Or vice versa? Couldn't you
draft in Spyrers to help?

> >>Or if the Stealer player gains control of
> >> the CAT, or if you have to worry about the dropthroughs...
> >??
>
> ? CAT ? Dropthroughs? If those rules are still in there you are in for it.
> Anything about "Power Armoured" marines? That made for some fun. How about
> the Hybrids:

Can't imagine that even with the nostalgia feel they're going for
they'd put in rules for Hybrids - the models can't be bought from GW
any more, and if this really is a one-off splash release they aren't
going to be making new SH-specific figs. Maybe if I'm right and
Hybrids do return in next year's Tyranid book they'll be in time for
SH rules in White Dwarf.

> "Expanded Blip H" represents a 3rd level psyker hybrid with a Conversion
> Beamer (and number of genestealers). Just wait till the stealer player
> converts that one on you... Then the timer starts to really matter...

On a different subject, what do conversion beamers actually do in 40k
these days? I killed the only one I saw before it got to do anything.
Always liked the weapon in RT - I have at least two World Eater
Devastators (yes, you heard) with conversion beamers.

Phil

<pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
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On 29 Aug, 20:07, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani....TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote:
> <pbow....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>

>Am I the only one with a sinking feeling this 'limited release' is
>just a ploy, and once it proves popular it will stay on the shelves
>for a while? May have rushed in to buy it with no good reason... Then
>again, they may just rerelease it iin 5 years for the 25th
>anniversary.

Forgot to comment on this statement: I have the same feeling. Based on how
the figures are based I'm guessing this will be available for quite a while.
If they had needed slaotta bases, or glue ons it would have been easier to
believe this was a collectors edition. As it is, it seems more like a trial
balloon.

"smcdaniel1" <smcdaniel1.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message
news:WQemm.323590$Ta5.271956@newsfe15.iad...
>
> >Then, you have both SC and ASC?
> >Did you get the expansions, too?
>
> I don't recognize the acronyms...

SC = Space Crusade. ASC = ... go on, guess ).

Cheers, Martyn
--

"M Roberts" <unknown DeleteThis @thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:4a999271$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> "smcdaniel1" <smcdaniel1 DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote in message
> news:WQemm.323590$Ta5.271956@newsfe15.iad...
>>
>> >Then, you have both SC and ASC?
>> >Did you get the expansions, too?
>>
>> I don't recognize the acronyms...
>
> SC = Space Crusade. ASC = ... go on, guess ).

Ahh of course: and sadly, you are right: I have neither. The prices were
just too much for me when I was looking at them 5 or 6 years ago. And I was
making a LOT of money then. Geeze! Where did it all go? Oh yeah, some went
to my ex-wife, the rest went to GW.

Though I do have "epic" versions of the Chaos Dreadnoughts and Androids
(neo-Korns).

There's a good resource for the original Space Hulk at
http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/.

There was an original campaign expansion book published by GW, after the
Deathwing & Genestealer expansions.

There were also some campaigns published in WD or the Citdel Journal.

Some of these campaigns, including the Necromunda one, are available at
http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/mirrors/shc/.

Another good resource is at http://www.space-hulk-arsenal.fr.st/, but you'll
need the Babelfish (unless you read French).

Cheers, Martyn
--

<pbowles DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
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>
> Same rule now, only they're using standard D6 and you hit on a 6 (or
> 5+ on sustained fire - if you roll to hit the same target a second or
> subsequent time). Being able to fire once per action point and again
> every time a 'Stealer moves a square gives you a lot of chances to
> hit. In my game I was mostly killing on the second roll (with the
> sustained fire bonus).

In the original you only got sustained fire if you didn't move between
shots.

You didn't get sustained fire on overwatch, and you could also jam the
bolter.

Cheers, Martyn
--

On 30 Aug, 09:30, "M Roberts" <unkn... RemoveThis @thisaddress.com> wrote:
> <pbow... RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cc8aada9-fc8c-4820-83f3-769494cfcc33@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Same rule now, only they're using standard D6 and you hit on a 6 (or
> > 5+ on sustained fire - if you roll to hit the same target a second or
> > subsequent time). Being able to fire once per action point and again
> > every time a 'Stealer moves a square gives you a lot of chances to
> > hit. In my game I was mostly killing on the second roll (with the
> > sustained fire bonus).
>
> In the original you only got sustained fire if you didn't move between
> shots.
>
> You didn't get sustained fire on overwatch, and you could also jam the
> bolter.

Bolters can jam on overwatch now (though are easily cleared); as we
played it sustained fire worked both on overwatch and when moving
between shots, but I didn't check the rules (it makes sense if you
can't use it if you move between shots, though).

Phil

On 30 Aug, 16:40, "M Roberts" <unkn....DeleteThis@thisaddress.com> wrote:
> <pbow....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
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> news:ae011d72-3f19-466b-ac06-edbc9924e90c@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Bolters can jam on overwatch now (though are easily cleared);
>
> Yes, but it cost an action/command point, which could be critical.

From what I was told, there's nothing to use action and command points
on in the opponent's turn except clearing jams, so barring a lot of
jams (I think I only got two), it doesn't seem much of an issue -
apparently weapons only jam on overwatch (yes, I thought that was odd,
so asked specifically. Apparently it's so).

> > as we
> > played it sustained fire worked both on overwatch and when moving
> > between shots, but I didn't check the rules (it makes sense if you
> > can't use it if you move between shots, though).
>
> So, you didn't use a timer, and were allowed sustained fire both after
> moving and on overwatch?
>
> No wonder you thought the game was too easy to win for the Marine player.

Well, with the new timer apparently being three minutes, I doubt that
would have been an issue in this game, and I tended to move and fire
only because I had the option - moving for the most part didn't
achieve anything game-breaking (aside from the flamer, obviously,
which didn't get to sustain fire). There's no telling how much
difference not sustaining fire on overwatch would have made, since the
'Stealers were dead - if they'd survived I'd still get two or three
more rounds of shooting at each of them (and with two dice, that's an
average of a kill every three squares a 'Stealer moves). On balance I
doubt any of it would have made the game substantially more difficult.

> I think you'll find it a lot tougher (and a lot more enjoyable) once a), you
> play the rules properly and b), play the later scenarios.

And if not I can just play 'Stealers for the challenge...

Phil

On 30 Aug, 17:09, "smithdoerr" <m... DeleteThis @somewhere.com> wrote:
> <pbow... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6f3dbef4-e8f7-4e6b-b1e4-7f56db1596f7@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On a different subject, what do conversion beamers actually do in 40k
> > these days? I killed the only one I saw before it got to do anything.
> > Always liked the weapon in RT - I have at least two World Eater
> > Devastators (yes, you heard) with conversion beamers.
>
> It's a hvy 1 Blast weapon that gets a better stat line the further you are
> from the target.
>
> up to 18" s6 ap-
> 18" to 42" s8 ap4
> 42" to 72" s10 ap1
> over 72" miss

Okay, my opponent was a twit. He stuck his beamer on a bike and turbo-
boosted *towards* my Guardians. Not that it wouldn't have made a mess
of them as a shadow weaver equivalent; negating their saves would have
been more useful.

> Costs +20pts and the tech loses his servo-harness.  An ok value vs armies
> that are mostly save4+ or worse or when playing on a large table.

Even on a standard GW table, there might be just enough room to get
the S10 shot, though not the LOS to (I've taken to dropping every bit
of cover in the store onto my tables...). It's a nice gun, and good to
see it back. Given the few AT shots that army he had, he could have at
least tried it against the tanks, or for that matter just tried to
knock out a few Avengers.

 Not
> really something you want to put on a biker tech.

Not really, no... Is there a model with the new CB? He'd stuck a
missile launcher on his bike to represent it.

Phil

<pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6f3dbef4-e8f7-4e6b-b1e4-7f56db1596f7@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...


> On a different subject, what do conversion beamers actually do in 40k
> these days? I killed the only one I saw before it got to do anything.
> Always liked the weapon in RT - I have at least two World Eater
> Devastators (yes, you heard) with conversion beamers.

It's a hvy 1 Blast weapon that gets a better stat line the further you are
from the target.

up to 18" s6 ap-
18" to 42" s8 ap4
42" to 72" s10 ap1
over 72" miss

Costs +20pts and the tech loses his servo-harness. An ok value vs armies
that are mostly save4+ or worse or when playing on a large table. Not
really something you want to put on a biker tech.


--

-smithdoerr

<pbowles RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:ae011d72-3f19-466b-ac06-edbc9924e90c@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bolters can jam on overwatch now (though are easily cleared);

Yes, but it cost an action/command point, which could be critical.

> as we
> played it sustained fire worked both on overwatch and when moving
> between shots, but I didn't check the rules (it makes sense if you
> can't use it if you move between shots, though).

So, you didn't use a timer, and were allowed sustained fire both after
moving and on overwatch?

No wonder you thought the game was too easy to win for the Marine player.

I think you'll find it a lot tougher (and a lot more enjoyable) once a), you
play the rules properly and b), play the later scenarios.

Cheers, Martyn
--

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:07:30 -0700, "smcdaniel1" <smcdaniel1 RemoveThis @cox.net>
wrote:


>BTW: Just for kicks, check out my very first posts on RGMW back in 96 or
>so... They were all questions about Space Hulk.
>

i think my only question about SH is the same question I've had about
most of GW's games....

"How could such a great idea be made to be so terribly bad?"