SES - the continuing saga ... :)

On 4 sep, 21:57, Energizer Bunny <ke....TakeThisOut@on.going> wrote:
>
> Great, this means I can trade my download copy of Tin Soldiers Caesar and
> Matrixgames has no say in the matter as I own the software and didn't rent
> it as they claim in the EULA.

Cite anyone from Matrix who said you couldn't and you have a case.

We'll wait.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

On Sep 4, 4:28 am, "eddyster...@hotmail.com" <eddyster....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sounds like this guy is pissed off enough to take 'm to court
>
> http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1049701&postcount=113
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx

Don't get too excited. It's only a trial court AND one in the 9th
Circuit.

Nevertheless, I hope it all pans out.

"eddysterckx@hotmail.com" <eddysterckx DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in news:767459c3-
0637-45dd-a888-06861bbbf28f DeleteThis @x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

> Hi,
>
> Sounds like this guy is pissed off enough to take 'm to court
>
> http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1049701&postcount=113
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
>

Great, this means I can trade my download copy of Tin Soldiers Caesar and
Matrixgames has no say in the matter as I own the software and didn't rent
it as they claim in the EULA.

<eddysterckx DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:767459c3-0637-45dd-a888-06861bbbf28f@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Sounds like this guy is pissed off enough to take 'm to court
>
> http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1049701&postcount=113
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
>

At last some sense. Hopefully this type of ruling will be standard. I wonder
what this means for limited installation and DRM.....

RobP

"eddysterckx@hotmail.com" <eddysterckx.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:36039373-5f9a-436d-8d92-2fd2663c2909@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

> Cite anyone from Matrix who said you couldn't and you have a case.
>
> We'll wait.
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx

You posted the relevant part of their EULA earlier that stated their
software was non-transferrable. Well, it is transferrable because I own it
and can do with it as I please. I don't need to ask them anything on their
forum. Who wants to trade something to me for Tin Soldiers Caesar?

On Sep 4, 11:14 pm, Energizer Bunny <ke... RemoveThis @on.going> wrote:
>
> You posted the relevant part of their EULA earlier that stated their
> software was non-transferrable.

Yup. But there's lawyer talk and there's Real Life. And in Real Life
I've never seen them object to people posting *on their own forum* a
"good game seeks a new home" message, while SES/JR whose EULA says the
same posted this on "his" forum :

"We also state up front that you cannot sell our games. Why? You are
buying a License to play our games, not the game itself."

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1001509&postcount=46

I don't expect you to see the difference, but I'm sure everyone with a
brain big enough so it *doesn't* rattle in a gnat's skull (well, exo-
skeleton) will.

> Who wants to trade something to me for Tin Soldiers Caesar?

I'll trade you my cold - as good as new, only used for a day now.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

On Sep 5, 10:13 am, "Mike Kreuzer" <m....TakeThisOut@FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com> wrote:
> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > that would be the end of the company trying that trick.
>
> > "rent our game, only $50 per year"
>
> > do you think anybody would bite?
>
> > it seems to be a fight the game company will lose.
>
> Let's hope so.

It depends – you’re all assuming a $50 / year price for a leased game,
but what about $20 / year ? Or a lease plan that lets you rent the
game for $20 the first year and then gives you the option to either
continue the deal for another x number of years or to buy it for
$50 ?

You see, a lease-plan doesn’t need to be a negative thing from a
gamer’s pov and a publisher who comes up with a formula that will both
attract the “When I buy it, I own it” crowd as the “I’m only going to
be playing this for a month, so $50 to buy is too high” crowd is going
to make some extra bucks without having inconvenienced anyone.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

On Sep 5, 10:56 am, "Mike Kreuzer" <m....TakeThisOut@FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com> wrote:

> I'm agin' it. Unless the lease price is around 5% of the sale price.  $50 to
> buy outright means $2.50 to rent for a year.  Anything higher's usury, and
> we all know that's a bad bad thing.

For those against it : what's stopping you from buying the game on
release for $50 ?

What I'm talking about is not unlike the business model you see in the
car industry.

People who want to buy a new car straight away can do so, but (for
instance) a scheme at my company allows people to lease a car for a
year and then (optionally) buy it at a reduced price or continue to
lease or stop the lease because they fancy the new model or whatever.

You, a guy clearly in the "If I buy it I own it" category is not
discomforted at all, but this scheme also attracts the more casual
gamer who can now test-drive the game for far less than he'd pay if he
were forced to buy it.

People rent stuff all the time, why not games ?

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

On Sep 5, 11:52 am, "Mike Kreuzer" <m....DeleteThis@FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com> wrote:

> Cause like my father before me, I'm a workin' man; like my brother before
> me, I took a rebel stand ... there's no logic to my rebellion,

Nor to your choice of music. Those guys were Canadian

> I'll think
> about it, I'm sure I'll come up with something fancy. <g>

Don't strain a brain-muscle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

On Sep 5, 1:58 pm, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> But my suspicion is that most publishers will attempt to rent or lease
> software for a price that's not significantly less than the purchase
> price.  If we're assuming that purchase price is still going to be about
> $50, then I don't wanna hear about "renting" or "leasing" the product
> for $25.  

Even when you'd still be able to simply buy it for $50 ? You know,
just like customers are given the option to either buy or rent
everything else on this planet. If there's no difference between a
software product and any other product, why shouldn't there be a buy
AND a rent option ?

And it's not as if this is not already happening in the console world.
Even my own hometown has a store where I can rent GTA IV for a week,
buy it second-hand and so on.

Like you keep repeating : it's just a product like any other product.
Some people want to own GTA IV, so they buy it, others would like to
find out what the fuss was all about and rent it for a week. The
publisher makes money either way.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

On Sep 5, 2:36 pm, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I guess this is my bottom line; I want to hear the *exact* terms of the
> rental before I'm going to rent ...

A bit hard if you're conducting a thought experiment

> and the price better be somewhere
> south of 1/10th the purchase cost.  

IRL the 24-hour rental price of a freshly released Hot Game is like
1/5th of the price, dropping over time to 1/5th of the price for a
whole week, 1/20th of the price for a day.

As with all things, price is not really set in terms of costs
incurred, but in terms of maximizing profits and the above rates seem
to be the sweet spot for console games (over here).

Let's continue this thought experiment and ask yourself if you'd be
willing to pay $10 to play/test a new wargame for 24 hours upon
release or $2.50 after a month or so.

Seems to me it's a good deal if you're a bit unsure about a particular
game. I surely can name a couple of games I don't have I would have
checked out at $10.

Heck, when a game reaches $2.50 I'd check out *every* wargame that
gets released.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

<eddysterckx DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:767459c3-0637-45dd-a888-06861bbbf28f@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Sounds like this guy is pissed off enough to take 'm to court
>
> http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1049701&postcount=113
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
>


Interesting, so what's missing from the-software-as-lease deal are more
features of a lease. So, (evil) sellers could make the thing *more* like
lease, & then you'd be outaluck when trying to resell it. You pay me $50
now for this software, and in a year if you want to keep using it you have
to pay another $50, or else you have to give it back. Well, that's a lease,
and M$ is already experimenting with this actual lease model, in some places
it's how you buy (I mean lease) Office.

But what if it wasn't paying another $50, what if it was *activating* it
online that was required in a year, or next time you want to play? ie does
server chaining make the transaction already lease-like enough to be an
actual lease? Interesting ... I just don't see why would anyone want to pay
for this kind of krud, but it is interesting.

Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com

"Mike Kreuzer" <mike DeleteThis @FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com> wrote in message
news:48c05c33$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> <eddysterckx DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:767459c3-0637-45dd-a888-06861bbbf28f@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sounds like this guy is pissed off enough to take 'm to court
>>
>> http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1049701&postcount=113
>>
>> Greetz,
>>
>> Eddy Sterckx
>>
>
>
> Interesting, so what's missing from the-software-as-lease deal are more
> features of a lease. So, (evil) sellers could make the thing *more* like
> lease, & then you'd be outaluck when trying to resell it. You pay me $50
> now for this software, and in a year if you want to keep using it you have
> to pay another $50, or else you have to give it back. Well, that's a
> lease,
> and M$ is already experimenting with this actual lease model, in some
> places
> it's how you buy (I mean lease) Office.
>
> But what if it wasn't paying another $50, what if it was *activating* it
> online that was required in a year, or next time you want to play? ie
> does
> server chaining make the transaction already lease-like enough to be an
> actual lease? Interesting ... I just don't see why would anyone want to
> pay
> for this kind of krud, but it is interesting.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Kreuzer
> www.mikekreuzer.com
>


that would be the end of the company trying that trick.

"rent our game, only $50 per year"

do you think anybody would bite?

it seems to be a fight the game company will lose.