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Since: Nov 26, 2008 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:04 am
Post subject: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) Archived from groups: rec>games>int-fiction (more info?)
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I've never been a big fan of replaying games, but I played Enchanter
again a while back because I had never finished it. It got me itching
to have a second look at Sorcerer, so I ran through it this week.
I remember Sorcerer seeming short and easy the first time I played it.
This time it seemed bigger and harder, though I remembered enough to
get through it in a couple days, only cracking into the Invisiclues in
the Lagoon area.
I think I might have actually enjoyed it more the second time, having
more IF context and a geeky interest in the back-patched hodgepodge of
Zork mythology.
Right off the bat, I had a great time with the Encyclopedia
Frobozzica. One of the things that has made IF more enjoyable for me
lately is that I've got a consistent skein-inspired system for naming
save files (e.g. c02encyclopedia.sav: a letter representing a thread
followed by two digits representing a sequence number followed by a
word describing the situation; any time I branch from an earlier point
in the thread I increment both the letter and the number from the last
save file.) So I saved the game right at the encyclopedia and had fun
going back to it throughout the game and when reading the "amusing" at
the end.
Sorcerer introduced the gaspar spell, which I think might have been a
way of avoiding saves and removing some of the out-of-world quality of
saving. It certainly could be used this way, but I think saving is
still more convenient. One of the reasons is that I never bothered to
examine the workings of gaspar: Does the effect wear off when you
sleep? (no) Does it deduct from your points? (no) Where do you get
resurrected? (The last place you cast it, usually). What happens to
your possessions? (I think you keep them) Most of the time it does
just what you would want, although you can get stuck if you cast it in
a dark place (you can always frotz yourself, I guess) or somewhere
that has been blocked off, or if the events of your death involved
using up a resource. I've often wondered if there was a way to
discourage players from saving so much and increase their level of
immersion, but it seems like the only effective method is to convince
them they can never get stuck.
And in Sorcerer there are definitely ways to get stuck. Using up
scrolls and potions, dropping things in the Glass Maze, and of course
a million ways to die. I can't think of any game I've played where
there are so many ways to die. Some of them seem reasonable, but a lot
just sound like poor excuses for keeping the story on track (if you
"aimfiz servants," you catch them drinking on the job and they slit
your throat!) Some of them are just annoying - it seems like you have
to izyuk yourself every other step in order to avoid chasms, mudslides
and bridge collapses. To a certain extent, the ubiquitous danger above
ground emphasizes the strength of Fort Griffspotter's defenses, but
the need to avoid them throughout the first half of the midgame is
wearing. Because of my packrat tendencies (even on a replay!) and the
lack of a carryall, I found myself retracing my steps a lot to juggle
items.
Why are red herring objects always big and heavy? It seemed reasonable
to me that the floor waxer could be used to check for pits in the
Glass Maze. The flag could have been used to wrap up your belongings -
wouldn't that have been clever? Since it seems like you need to sleep
every couple of hours, you're constantly dealing with carrying limits
"in light of your exhaustion." I know sleep is important for resetting
your spells, but it just seemed weird to have to "sleep" in the middle
of whatever task you're working on. There is some compensation,
though: Steve finally gave us a chance to use the timber.
I just noticed from Peter Pears' review that the ruins of Castle
Egreth is the same place as in Enchanter, nominally. Wow, things have
changed a lot since you were here last! Oh well.
Several reviewers have complained about the way Meretzky changed the
tone of the Zork/Enchanter series. I've never quite seen it that way -
although Sorcerer does lack the emotional power of the other two in
the trilogy, I see it more as a step backwards; the humor and the
jumble of incongruous objects and locations falls in line with the
original Zork trilogy. Try "aimfiz wizard of frobozz" to see what I
mean... |
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Since: Sep 10, 2009 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:28 am
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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| On Sep 10, 10:04 am, Captain Mikee <captainmi... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've never been a big fan of replaying games,
A lot of them are better that way. The first time you're too focused
on winning to look around listen to the roses (outside of IF-dom, one
would say "smell the roses").
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Since: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 496
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Captain Mikee <captainmikee DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> I just noticed from Peter Pears' review that the ruins of Castle
> Egreth is the same place as in Enchanter, nominally. Wow, things have
> changed a lot since you were here last! Oh well.
That's not true, though. Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in
Egreth.
Richard |
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Since: Aug 21, 2008 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt... DeleteThis @xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
> Captain Mikee <captainmi... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I just noticed from Peter Pears' review that the ruins of Castle
> > Egreth is the same place as in Enchanter, nominally. Wow, things have
> > changed a lot since you were here last! Oh well.
>
> That's not true, though. Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in
> Egreth.
>
> Richard
REally? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review. |
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Since: Aug 21, 2008 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sep 11, 7:04 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt....TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
> > Captain Mikee <captainmi....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I just noticed from Peter Pears' review that the ruins of Castle
> > > Egreth is the same place as in Enchanter, nominally. Wow, things have
> > > changed a lot since you were here last! Oh well.
>
> > That's not true, though. Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in
> > Egreth.
>
> > Richard
>
> REally? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
> still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review.
Oh, ok. I switched the names. I didn't mean Egreth, I meant Largoneth.
I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote the name.
But the castle is the same, then. Unless I'm really missing something.
The drawbridge is still there, and the turret, and the dungeon, and
nowhere that I can find are we given the name of the place anyway... |
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Since: Apr 22, 2008 Posts: 15
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:33 am
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sep 11, 12:17 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 7:04 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt....RemoveThis@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
> > > Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in Egreth.
>
> > Really? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
> > still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review.
>
> Oh, ok. I switched the names. I didn't mean Egreth, I meant Largoneth.
> I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote the name.
>
> But the castle is the same, then. Unless I'm really missing something.
> The drawbridge is still there, and the turret, and the dungeon, and
> nowhere that I can find are we given the name of the place anyway...
The only mention of the name Largoneth in Enchanter
happens if you examine the maps in the Map Room.
On the other hand, the identification of Egreth in
Sorcerer is quite clear. |
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Since: Aug 21, 2008 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sep 11, 5:33 pm, Nathan <ntsp....DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 12:17 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 11, 7:04 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt....DeleteThis@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
> > > > Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in Egreth.
>
> > > Really? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
> > > still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review.
>
> > Oh, ok. I switched the names. I didn't mean Egreth, I meant Largoneth.
> > I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote the name.
>
> > But the castle is the same, then. Unless I'm really missing something.
> > The drawbridge is still there, and the turret, and the dungeon, and
> > nowhere that I can find are we given the name of the place anyway...
>
> The only mention of the name Largoneth in Enchanter
> happens if you examine the maps in the Map Room.
> On the other hand, the identification of Egreth in
> Sorcerer is quite clear.
Amazing, how I managed to mix them up so completely. I was sure it was
the same place. Ah well, thanks for the correction. |
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Since: Aug 21, 2008 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:19 am
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sep 12, 3:03 pm, ralt....TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
> Nathan <ntsp....TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote:
> > On Sep 11, 12:17 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 11, 7:04 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt....TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
> > > > > Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in Egreth.
>
> > > > Really? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
> > > > still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review.
>
> > > Oh, ok. I switched the names. I didn't mean Egreth, I meant Largoneth..
> > > I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote the name.
>
> > > But the castle is the same, then. Unless I'm really missing something..
> > > The drawbridge is still there, and the turret, and the dungeon, and
> > > nowhere that I can find are we given the name of the place anyway...
>
> Erm. Drawbridge, turret, dungeon. Add in a great hall and you more or
> less have the definition of _any_ proper castle, both in the G.U.E. and
> in our own world. (Ok, with the exception that many castles these days
> seem to have filled up their moats. I bet you they had one when they
> were functioning as a castle, though.)
Yeah, but they were all in the same general compass direction to each
other, and I had just finished playing Enchanter. Not that hard a
mistake to make.
> > The only mention of the name Largoneth in Enchanter
> > happens if you examine the maps in the Map Room.
>
> The Encyclopaedia Frobozzica is quite explicit about it, though.
Yeah, that's where I checked it out. But then I found no entry on
"Egreth", so I couldn't confirm whether Enchanter wasn't in Largoneth
as well. Incidently, I checked it out in my printed, Return to Zork
EF. Dunno if the web version has the entry.
And I think I mixed them up again, but at this point, I just don't
care. |
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Since: Apr 22, 2008 Posts: 15
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:56 am
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sep 12, 8:03 am, ralt....DeleteThis@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
> Nathan <ntsp....DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote:
> > On Sep 11, 12:17 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 11, 7:04 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt....DeleteThis@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
> > > > > Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in Egreth.
>
> > > > Really? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
> > > > still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review.
>
> > > Oh, ok. I switched the names. I didn't mean Egreth, I meant Largoneth.
> > > I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote the name.
>
> > > But the castle is the same, then. Unless I'm really missing something.
> > > The drawbridge is still there, and the turret, and the dungeon, and
> > > nowhere that I can find are we given the name of the place anyway...
> > The only mention of the name Largoneth in Enchanter
> > happens if you examine the maps in the Map Room.
>
> The Encyclopaedia Frobozzica is quite explicit about it, though.
>
But that's only in Sorcerer.
> > On the other hand, the identification of Egreth in
> > Sorcerer is quite clear.
>
> Is it? AFAICT it is only mentioned in passing (mainly in the in-game
> Encyclopaedia). Fort Griffspotter, OTOH, is explicitly so named, and
> since we know that it lay near Egreth, the castle in Sorcerer must be
> that one. But I don't think the game tells us so directly.
Silly me. I made that claim without checking.
Actually, there's only one place in Sorcerer that the castle
is explicitly called "Egreth": if you cast GASPAR in the
Guild Hall then die after leaving it, the angel tells you
he's sending you to Egreth Castle. But the Encyclopedia
entries still do make it fairly clear. |
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Since: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 496
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Nathan <ntspam2 RemoveThis @netscape.net> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 12:17 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 11, 7:04 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 10, 10:55 pm, ralt... RemoveThis @xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
> >
> > > > Enchanter takes place in Largoneth, not in Egreth.
> >
> > > Really? Whooops! My bad! I'll have to replay just to make sure, but
> > > still... whoops! In which case I'll correct the review.
> >
> > Oh, ok. I switched the names. I didn't mean Egreth, I meant Largoneth.
> > I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote the name.
> >
> > But the castle is the same, then. Unless I'm really missing something.
> > The drawbridge is still there, and the turret, and the dungeon, and
> > nowhere that I can find are we given the name of the place anyway...
Erm. Drawbridge, turret, dungeon. Add in a great hall and you more or
less have the definition of _any_ proper castle, both in the G.U.E. and
in our own world. (Ok, with the exception that many castles these days
seem to have filled up their moats. I bet you they had one when they
were functioning as a castle, though.)
> The only mention of the name Largoneth in Enchanter
> happens if you examine the maps in the Map Room.
The Encyclopaedia Frobozzica is quite explicit about it, though.
> On the other hand, the identification of Egreth in
> Sorcerer is quite clear.
Is it? AFAICT it is only mentioned in passing (mainly in the in-game
Encyclopaedia). Fort Griffspotter, OTOH, is explicitly so named, and
since we know that it lay near Egreth, the castle in Sorcerer must be
that one. But I don't think the game tells us so directly.
Richard |
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Since: Aug 23, 2005 Posts: 149
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Richard Bos wrote:
> Erm. Drawbridge, turret, dungeon. Add in a great hall and you more or
> less have the definition of _any_ proper castle, both in the G.U.E. and
> in our own world. (Ok, with the exception that many castles these days
> seem to have filled up their moats. I bet you they had one when they
> were functioning as a castle, though.)
You can bet that the Chateau de Queribus did not have a moat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Qu%C3%A9ribus , nor did the
castle of Edinburgh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_castle .
You only dig a moat if you don't have natural defenses handy, and of
course, many castles were built exactly where there are excellent
natural defenses.
If you don't have a moat, you may or may not have a drawbridge.
I'm not sure about the great hall, either.
Regards,
Victor
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Since: Nov 26, 2008 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Replaying Sorcerer (spoilers) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>look up fort
Fort Griffspotter once guarded the lands near Egreth Castle from
attack by sea.
>look up egreth
Egreth was the castle of King Duncanthrax.
>look up duncanthrax
Duncanthrax was King of Quendor from 659 GUE through 688 GUE. Known as
the "Bellicose King", he extended
Quendor's domain, even conquering lands across the Great Sea (thus
forming what his great-great-grandson,
Dimwit Flathead, named the Great Underground Empire). Duncanthrax was
quite eccentric, and his castle,
Egreth, was reputed to be located in the most dangerous and deadly
territory in the known lands.
>l
Library
This is a study chamber for members of the Guild. Usually, there would
be several elder Enchanters
patiently training novices, but no one is here at the moment. The only
exit is west.
Lying open on a stand in one corner is a heavy volume, probably a copy
of the Encyclopedia Frobizzica.
There is a scribbled note here (providing light).
>gaspar
A sense of peace of mind passes over you.
>aimfiz belboz
As you cast the spell, the moldy scroll vanishes!
After a momentary dizziness, you realize that your location has
changed, although Belboz is not in
sight...
Twisted Forest
You are on a path through a blighted forest. The trees are sickly, and
there is no undergrowth at all.
One tree here looks climbable. The path, which ends here, continues to
the northeast.
A hellhound is racing straight toward you, its open jaws displaying
rows of razor-sharp teeth.
>z
Time passes...
The hellhound reaches you and tears you apart with its powerful teeth.
**** You have died ****
Your guardian angel, draped in white, appears floating in the
nothingness before you. "Gotten in a bit of
a scrape, eh?" he asks, writing frantically in a notebook. "I'd love
to chat, but we're so busy this
month." A look of consternation crosses the angel's face. "According
to the records, you're to be
resurrected in your local Guild Hall. But that's quite far, and I've
had a rough day. How about Egreth
Castle instead, hmmm?" Being disembodied, you find it difficult to
object, and a moment later you are
among the...
Ruins
You are amongst the ruins of an ancient castle. A winding stairway
leads up to a crumbling turret, and a
dark passage leads downward. A path heads through the rubble to the
west. |
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