Reconstructed rules of Shanghai Classical majiang

On Dec 2, 3:16 pm, kong....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> I wonder if you found any
> details about the bao penalty rules (which specific situations deserve
> the penalty).

Hello Tom,

Bao rules apply to Pure One-Suit, Three Dragons, Four Winds, and Raw
tiles(unseen tiles) or Seat Wind/Dragon tiles(which will double the
winning hand) near the end of a hand.

> I don't know what a Too-Many hand is...?

By Too-Many, I refer to the Chinese word "そ"(Big Xianggong), such as
a 14 tiles' hand for a non-winner.

> And the false mahjong penalty is very interesting. I assume that's 100
> to each other player.

It's 300 points to each other player. No doubling is mentioned.

Cheers,
ithinc

On Nov 30, 7:56爌m, ithinc <ithi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here Shanghai Classical majiang refers to the majiang game popular in
> Shanghai, especially in the whorehouses, in about 1890s~1910s. The
> reconstruction is based on the various late Qing Chinese literatures
> and three earliest Chinese majiang manuals, of which two was not later
> than 1914 and another one was not later than 1920. This is just a
> draft version.

Hi Ithinc,

Before someone would, may I ask if you could also list the sources
(literatures, etc) of the materials that you've come up with for this
list. It would be very helpful for those who wish to study further.

[...]
> 14 tiles' dead wall.
> Bao rules.
> East doubling.
> Payment between all players.
> No points for Too-Many hand.
> No points for all if no one wins.
> 300 points' penalty for false mahjong.

I am especially interested in how early "payment between all players"
is recorded.

Cheers!
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

Those 1920s rules can be found online in NUMEROUS locations:

http://www.MahJongMuseum.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/Mahjong/Mahjong.html
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~clay/mahjongg/
http://otal.umd.edu/~vg/amst205.F96/vj07/project3.html
http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/orient/mah_jong/overview_intro.html
http://www.mastersgames.com/cat/table/mah-jong.htm
http://www.teaser.fr/u/edetocquev/java/mahjongg/Doc/Regle.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~korntner/mahjong/nanette/nan_notes.html
http://www.mahjongg.com/
http://games.yahoo.com/games/rules/mahjong/mjscoring.html
http://www.free-conversant.com/mindspill/156
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.mahjong/msg/c9feda5a04084d83?pli=1

You'll probably not find much difference between their descriptions of
the game.

Books citing the rules that were used in Shanghai in the 1920s are
also widely available. One has only to open two or three of them to
find that the variations between them are few and minor. Images of
their covers can be seen at http://www.sloperama.com/cctheory/all.htm
The vast majority of authors did their research in Shanghai, very few
in Hong Kong (where the only significant difference was 10 points
instead of 20 for going mahjong).
If you're looking for a detailed analysis of multiple authors from
that decade, I must respectfully decline to take on that project due
to other demands on my time at this juncture.

Using ithinc's format, with modifications:

All players:

MP/CP/MK/CK of simples (2s~8s): 2/4/8/16 pts
MP/CP/MK/CK of terminals (1s, 9s) or Non-Seat/Non-Round Winds:
4/8/16/32 pts
MP/CP/MK/CK of Seat Wind, Round Wind, or Dragons: 4/8/16/32 pts + 1
dbl
Pair of Seat Wind, Round Wind, or Dragons: 2 pts
Pair of Seat Wind that's also the Round Wind: 4 pts
Flower/Season, if used: 4 pts
Both flowers/seasons of seat number, if flowers used: 1 dbl
Impure One-Suit ("Cleared Hand"): 1 dbl
All Terminals and Honors: 1 dbl
Pure One-Suit: 3 dbl
All Honors: 3 dbl
All Terminals: 3 dbl
All 4 flowers or all 4 seasons, if used: 3 dbl

Winner only:

Base score for winning: 20 pts (10 pts in Hong Kong)
All-chow hand with worthless pair: 10 pts
Unique wait (the 3 only-place waits ithinc mentioned): 2 pts
Selfdrawn: 2 pts (can be added to unique wait)
Winning on last playable tile from wall: 10 pts
All pungs: 1 dbl
Win on flower or kong replacement: 1 dbl
Robbing a kong: 1 dbl
Earthly Hand or Hand of Man: 3 dbl (Earthly sometimes earns limit)

Limit Hands:

Heavenly Hand
Earthly Hand (when not awarded 3 dbl)
All Honors
All Terminals
All Green
Big Three Dragons
Big Four Winds
All Kongs
Nine Gates
Thirteen Orphans
Four Concealed Pungs (Hidden Treasure)
Moon from the Bottom of the Sea
Blossom on the Roof
Scratching a Carrying Pole
Kong on Kong

limit = 300 pts (sometimes 600)

14 tiles' dead wall.
East doubling.
Payment between all players.
No points for too many or too few tiles
No points for anyone if no one wins.
False mahjong - half limit to each non-dealer, limit to dealer

On Dec 4, 2:46燼m, kong... DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> Those 1920s rules can be found online in NUMEROUS locations:
> [...]
> You'll probably not find much difference between their descriptions of
> the game.

Thank you, Tom. But I don't know whether their descrpitions is limited
to Shanghai rules only. They're not so reliable as you, for I cannot
have a talk with the webmasters.

> Limit Hands:
>
> Heavenly Hand
> Earthly Hand (when not awarded 3 dbl)
> All Honors
> All Terminals
> All Green
> Big Three Dragons
> Big Four Winds
> All Kongs
> Nine Gates
> Thirteen Orphans
> Four Concealed Pungs (Hidden Treasure)
> Moon from the Bottom of the Sea
> Blossom on the Roof
> Scratching a Carrying Pole
> Kong on Kong
>
> limit = 300 pts (sometimes 600)

Many thanks for your summary rules. According to my limited knowledge,
it seems "All Kongs", "Hidden Treasure" and "Kong on Kong" was not
ever existing in Shanghai mahjong. They were typical Hongkong mahjong
hand. Could someone prove me wrong? I would like to see a description
of Shanghai 1920s mahjong without influence from Hongkong mahjong.

Cheers,
ithinc

On Dec 3, 6:31 pm, Cofa Tsui <cofat....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ithinc,
>
> Before someone would, may I ask if you could also list the sources
> (literatures, etc) of the materials that you've come up with for this
> list. It would be very helpful for those who wish to study further.

Hi, Cofa,

Most of the late Qing Chinese literatures from 1891 to 1911 has ever
simply introduced in this group. The earliest Chinese mahjong manuals
I have referenced are:
绘图麻雀牌谱: "Huitu maque paipu" by Shanghai Youyishe, October 1923, 2nd
edition(1st edtion in March 1924, maybe a mistake of March 1923),
published by Shanghai Youyishe. Huitu maque paipu was firstly
published by Shiwu Shuguan under the title (绘图)麻雀牌谱 in May 1914.
(百战百胜)麻雀经: "Maque jing" by Pingjiang Zhu Yingyan, Augest 1914, 1st
edtion, publised by Guangnan Shuju, Shanghai
(百战百胜)麻雀扑克秘诀: "Maque puke mijue" by Haishang Laoyouke, published by
Shanghai Shijie Shuju, no publication date. MJM says their copy of
this book was published in May 1920.
新十三经 赌经: "Xin shisan jing; Du jing" by Li Dingyi, May 1919, published
by Guohua Shuju, Shanghai. Content on maque in this book is quite
similar to "Huitu maque paipu".

> I am especially interested in how early "payment between all players"
> is recorded.

It is recorded in both the two 1914 manuals, as you've already known.
The Chinese majiang manuals had a different group of readers than the
English manuals, so some rules were not written clearly. A hint of
"payment between all players" exists also in a novel "Xu haishang
fanhua meng" written by Sun Jiazhen from 1909 to 1916.

Cheers,
ithinc

On Dec 4, 9:51 pm, ithinc <ithi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 3, 6:31 pm, Cofa Tsui <cofat....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Most of the late Qing Chinese literatures from 1891 to 1911 has ever
> simply introduced in this group. The earliest Chinese mahjong manuals
> I have referenced are:
> 绘图麻雀牌谱: "Huitu maque paipu" by Shanghai Youyishe, October 1923, 2nd
> edition(1st edtion in March 1924, maybe a mistake of March 1923),
> published by Shanghai Youyishe. Huitu maque paipu was firstly
> published by Shiwu Shuguan under the title (绘图)麻雀牌谱 in May 1914.
> (百战百胜)麻雀经: "Maque jing" by Pingjiang Zhu Yingyan, Augest 1914, 1st
> edtion, publised by Guangnan Shuju, Shanghai
> (百战百胜)麻雀扑克秘诀: "Maque puke mijue" by Haishang Laoyouke, published by
> Shanghai Shijie Shuju, no publication date. MJM says their copy of
> this book was published in May 1920.
> 新十三经 赌经: "Xin shisan jing; Du jing" by Li Dingyi, May 1919, published
> by Guohua Shuju, Shanghai. Content on maque in this book is quite
> similar to "Huitu maque paipu".
>
> > I am especially interested in how early "payment between all players"
> > is recorded.
>
> It is recorded in both the two 1914 manuals, as you've already known.
> The Chinese majiang manuals had a different group of readers than the
> English manuals, so some rules were not written clearly. A hint of
> "payment between all players" exists also in a novel "Xu haishang
> fanhua meng" written by Sun Jiazhen from 1909 to 1916.

Hello Ithinc, yes I learned of the first two in our other
correspondence. I assume the last two have the similar descriptions.
Would all these four describe mostly or only Shanghai style?

官场现形记 (Guangchang Xianxing Ji) is believed to be published in 1903 -
Where "payment between *non-winning* players" doesn't seem to exist at
that time. As mentioned in my earlier message to you, I suspect that
"payment between non-winning players" could have been an element
evolved/developed from an earlier form of game play where only the
winning player gets paid.

Cheers!
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com