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Since: Nov 12, 2008 Posts: 26
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:53 pm
Post subject: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)
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I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
spells, and prayers.
Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
encounter, and daily powers.
So how about this. Let them have all the at-will powers, encounter
powers, and daily powers at their level.
On page 30 of the Player's Handbook, look at the "Total Powers Known"
column and use those numbers as "popular software style Spell Point
(Mana) limitations."
For example, an 11th level Wizard has all At-Wills, Encounters, and
Dailies from Wizard 1 to 11 to choose from, but can only use 4
encounters per encounter and 3 daily powers per day. The player keeps
a tally. Daily Powers: 3/3 and can chose any Daily when needed before
3 are expended. Each new day, the player can chose 3 different daily
powers.
Each new encounter, a player can chose up to 4 different encounter
powers. This resets every new encounter. Encounter Powers: 4/4 |
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Since: Jun 06, 2005 Posts: 3643
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:29 am
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ren <ren1999 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
> spells, and prayers.
>
> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
> encounter, and daily powers.
Wait, you're saying the really cool game that made it all so *vital* and
*easy*... is boring now because you've about run out of options?
Just checking.
Keith
--
Keith Davies You know you're working too much when you
keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org receive spam with
keith.davies DeleteThis @gmail.com "Subject: Erection issues resolved!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ and you go looking for the trouble ticket. |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 782
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:29 am
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrngk15oh.ivu.keith.davies.DeleteThis@kjdavies.org>,
Keith Davies <keith.davies.DeleteThis@kjdavies.org> wrote:
> Ren <ren1999.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
> > spells, and prayers.
> >
> > Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
> > encounter, and daily powers.
>
> Wait, you're saying the really cool game that made it all so *vital* and
> *easy*... is boring now because you've about run out of options?
>
> Just checking.
Options is why you play a game that requires a DM.
They were so focused on everyone getting a turn that they forgot why
people play *this* game. I sometimes wonder if they didn't make the
game Hasbro expected to see. You know, where everyone starts with the
same resources and everyone gets a roughly equal turn subject to the
randomizer in the game.
Ah well, the idea of crafting something *good* is so passe anyway. Just
make it "popular".
- Allen |
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Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 1751
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Keith Davies wrote:
> Ren wrote:
Re: How to make salt more sweet.
>> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
>> spells, and prayers.
>>
>> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
>> encounter, and daily powers.
>
> Wait, you're saying the really cool game that made it all so *vital* and
> *easy*... is boring now because you've about run out of options?
>
> Just checking.
Yeh. I'm thinking, play 3e, but stat-block up all the player's
options like 4e does. Once you're sick of a "power", change it. Use some
expertise, add in power attack, stick a trip on the last iterative attack,
and away you go again with your "deceptive knockdown smash" full round
attack power.
Same for the DM. Strip all the extranious info out of your monster
stat blocks, clean up two or three attack options, and you're good to go.
Hell, set all the spell durations to something more gamable, like
"this fight", "a series of fights", "an hour", "the day". All of a sudden
you're playing like it's 4e, but with options.
--
tussock
U'm iuel p jyx yn chycyipwlaf kyd blvlr ebyg ghpw kyd'rl sdbbp slw. |
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Since: Nov 12, 2008 Posts: 26
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 11, 4:27 pm, mcv <mcv....TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Instead of giving them more special abilities, how about better support
> for regular abilities?
I agree. Beef up their regular abilities and make them very valuable.
> Ever heard the saying "if all you have is a hammer, every problem tends
> to resemble a nail"? If all you have is a handful of at-wills and dailies,
> then you'll try to solve all your problems with your special abilities,
> but sometimes mundane skills can be more fun and offer more variety.
I'm just encouraging creativity. Perhaps the player would like to see
how his character might handle shifting ability rather than doing
greater damage. All the players either choose one or the other. |
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Since: Jun 06, 2005 Posts: 3643
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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tussock <scrub DeleteThis @clear.net.nz> wrote:
> Keith Davies wrote:
>> Ren wrote:
>
> Re: How to make salt more sweet.
>
>>> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities,
>>> exploits, spells, and prayers.
>>>
>>> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
>>> encounter, and daily powers.
>>
>> Wait, you're saying the really cool game that made it all so *vital*
>> and *easy*... is boring now because you've about run out of options?
>>
>> Just checking.
>
> Yeh. I'm thinking, play 3e, but stat-block up all the player's options
> like 4e does. Once you're sick of a "power", change it. Use some
> expertise, add in power attack, stick a trip on the last iterative
> attack, and away you go again with your "deceptive knockdown smash"
> full round attack power.
>
> Same for the DM. Strip all the extranious info out of your monster
> stat blocks, clean up two or three attack options, and you're good to
> go.
>
> Hell, set all the spell durations to something more gamable, like
> "this fight", "a series of fights", "an hour", "the day". All of a
> sudden you're playing like it's 4e, but with options.
I've considered something like that, actually.
Yeah, now that the shock's over, let's move on....
It seems like it would be workable. I certainly don't mind streamlining
things.
I've got other stuff on the go right now, but I should be available to
talk about this.
Keith
--
Keith Davies You know you're working too much when you
keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org receive spam with
keith.davies DeleteThis @gmail.com "Subject: Erection issues resolved!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ and you go looking for the trouble ticket. |
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Since: May 30, 2008 Posts: 366
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:04:29 +0000 (UTC), tussock <scrub.DeleteThis@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
>Keith Davies wrote:
>> Ren wrote:
>
> Re: How to make salt more sweet.
>
>>> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
>>> spells, and prayers.
>>>
>>> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
>>> encounter, and daily powers.
>>
>> Wait, you're saying the really cool game that made it all so *vital* and
>> *easy*... is boring now because you've about run out of options?
>>
>> Just checking.
>
> Yeh. I'm thinking, play 3e, but stat-block up all the player's
>options like 4e does. Once you're sick of a "power", change it. Use some
>expertise, add in power attack, stick a trip on the last iterative attack,
>and away you go again with your "deceptive knockdown smash" full round
>attack power.
>
> Same for the DM. Strip all the extranious info out of your monster
>stat blocks, clean up two or three attack options, and you're good to go.
>
> Hell, set all the spell durations to something more gamable, like
>"this fight", "a series of fights", "an hour", "the day". All of a sudden
>you're playing like it's 4e, but with options.
I have been using colored poker chips (and a thematic bin on the table
for discards) for durations and haven't been seeing any issues with
tracking them. Just hand the stack to the player (or set the stack
next to the post-in for the NPC) and toss a chip into the bin each
turn. When the stack is gone, the effect is gone. This actually
seems to me to be much easier to manage than the 4e rolls to save each
turn (I've seen too many of those rolls get forgotten in play).
--
Kyle Wilson
email: kylewilson.DeleteThis@wilson.mv.com |
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Since: Jun 10, 2005 Posts: 801
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ren <ren1999.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
> spells, and prayers.
>
> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
> encounter, and daily powers.
Instead of giving them more special abilities, how about better support
for regular abilities?
Ever heard the saying "if all you have is a hammer, every problem tends
to resemble a nail"? If all you have is a handful of at-wills and dailies,
then you'll try to solve all your problems with your special abilities,
but sometimes mundane skills can be more fun and offer more variety.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel |
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Since: Apr 02, 2008 Posts: 336
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ren wrote:
> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities,
> exploits, spells, and prayers.
I suggest playing the game, really.
Parvati V
--
"What is brain? Pai doesn't have such thing" - Pai, 3x3 eyes
UnaMoleDiDadi (TreEmme Torino): http://umdd.altervista.org/
http://parvatiquinta.blogspot.com/ |
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Since: Nov 06, 2005 Posts: 134
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:29:05 +0000, Keith Davies
<keith.davies.RemoveThis@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>Ren <ren1999.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
>> spells, and prayers.
>>
>> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
>> encounter, and daily powers.
>
>Wait, you're saying the really cool game that made it all so *vital* and
>*easy*... is boring now because you've about run out of options?
>
It's Ren for chrissakes.
considering his views on this is kind of like Burke's on anything or
Cope's on alighnment.
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunspammelaws.RemoveThis@iinet.unspamme.net.au |
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Since: Jan 16, 2006 Posts: 1687
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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mcv wrote:
> Ren <ren1999 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
>> spells, and prayers.
>>
>> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
>> encounter, and daily powers.
>
> Instead of giving them more special abilities, how about better support
> for regular abilities?
>
> Ever heard the saying "if all you have is a hammer, every problem tends
> to resemble a nail"? If all you have is a handful of at-wills and dailies,
> then you'll try to solve all your problems with your special abilities,
> but sometimes mundane skills can be more fun and offer more variety.
>
>
> mcv.
Enter the skill challenge. |
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Since: Nov 04, 2005 Posts: 813
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:26 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 10, 6:53 pm, Ren <ren1....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I suggest letting the characters have more feats, utilities, exploits,
> spells, and prayers.
>
> Players constantly complain that they are bored with their at-will,
> encounter, and daily powers.
>
> So how about this. Let them have all the at-will powers, encounter
> powers, and daily powers at their level.
>
> On page 30 of the Player's Handbook, look at the "Total Powers Known"
> column and use those numbers as "popular software style Spell Point
> (Mana) limitations."
>
> For example, an 11th level Wizard has all At-Wills, Encounters, and
> Dailies from Wizard 1 to 11 to choose from, but can only use 4
> encounters per encounter and 3 daily powers per day. The player keeps
> a tally. Daily Powers: 3/3 and can chose any Daily when needed before
> 3 are expended. Each new day, the player can chose 3 different daily
> powers.
>
> Each new encounter, a player can chose up to 4 different encounter
> powers. This resets every new encounter. Encounter Powers: 4/4
I had considered doing something similar to this. Of course all
wizards, etc., would be the same, in powers at least. It would mean
race, skills and feats would be the only differences.
- Justisaur |
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Since: Oct 05, 2005 Posts: 1306
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cutting 3.5 pages and pasting them into 4E books ^^ |
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Since: May 30, 2008 Posts: 366
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:58:55 +0100, "Vincenzo Beretta"
<reckall DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>Cutting 3.5 pages and pasting them into 4E books ^^
>
A terrible waste of irreplaceable 3.5e core books...
--
Kyle Wilson
email: kylewilson DeleteThis @wilson.mv.com |
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Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 2054
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: How to Make 4th Edition More Interesting? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kyle Wilson wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:58:55 +0100, "Vincenzo Beretta"
> <reckall.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Cutting 3.5 pages and pasting them into 4E books ^^
>>
>
>
> A terrible waste of irreplaceable 3.5e core books...
>
> --
>
> Kyle Wilson
> email: kylewilson.RemoveThis@wilson.mv.com
Yep.
--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller
BLUP |
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