Mah-Jong and Tai-Chi (Misinterpretation Victims)

On May 17, 4:34 pm, al <a... RemoveThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Apr 18, 10:35 pm, al <a... RemoveThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Mah-Jong and Tai-Chi (victims of misinterpretation)
>
> > Who first translated Tai-Chi? I don't know.
> > The translation is a classic example of misinterpretation.
>
> > What, if anything, does “Extreme Ultimate” mean to anybody?
> > “Extreme Ultimate” is a pair of adjectives: 太 极 or 太 極. It’s like
> > saying something being “highest lightest”; meaningless.
>
> > Philosophically, Tai-Chi is the ultimate place of origin, sometimes
> > referred to as the Great Emptiness or Void which is unknown and unseen
> > as to exactly location.
>
> > The two words are Tai , 太, and Chi, 極 (or 极). Tai is the birthing
> > place, because 太 in Chinese is known as the vagina of a woman. It is
> > used in common swearing term by young and old, male and female. They
> > all know what that means. The symbol is that of two legs and a baby or
> > something. Chi can be a modifier, ultimate, or an object as in 北极,
> > North Pole. The two words, Tai-Chi (太 极), together can be a metaphor
> > for primal universal origin representing a concept of an ultimate
> > birthplace where ten-thousand and everything else began.
>
> > Now when 2 words 太 极 can mean that much philosophically, one can
> > certainly consider the possibility and probability that 15 words (东南西
> > 北, east south west north, and 中 发 白 plus four more words for flowers
> > that match the four seasons 春夏秋冬, spring summer autumn winter) have
> > some meaning more than just “Cash, String and Myriad” in the mahjong
> > set.
>
> > Cash, string and Myriad sound like Extreme Ultimate to me, basically
> > meaningless with no correlation to the unique features of mahjong or
> > its method of play, nor the game as a whole conceptually.
>
> > Mah-Jong has a far-more deeper meaning. The game was first played by
> > the literate elite. The terminology of the game today has been muddled
> > at later time by slang, ignorance and various dialects in different
> > regions of China and then by Westerners who nicknamed symbols, like
> > Dragons, on their own.
>
> > Western influence was so penetrating 150 years ago, what was
> > translated, interpreted and written, right or wrong, by beginners to
> > the game while they were groping their way around for bits and scraps
> > of information then, still stands.
>
> > What a pity...
> > +++++++++++++++++
> > Cheers.....al
>
> I have another example of less than accurate interpretation of Chinese
> word/expression.
>
> 'EARLY HEAVEN EIGHT TRIGRAMS' IS LITERAL TRANSLATION.
>
> In Chinese, the symbols of 'SUN' and 'SKY' can mean 'DAY'. I suppose a
> day begins with a sunrise and the sky is bright and clear. That is
> understandable.
>
> In old olden days, the sun or sky was the only source of light.
>
> Then 'SKY' is high, high above and beyond. There was 'HEAVEN'. That is
> OK.
>
> When there is also a 'group of 'LATER HEAVEN EIGHT DIAGRAMS', then the
> interpretation is different.
>
> The definitions should be 'Early Day Eight-Trigram' and 'Later Day
> Eight-Trigram'. The two sets of trigrams came in different time. FuXi
> trigrams (read counter- clockwise); King Wen trigrams (rearranged
> later to read clockwise).
>
> That is the way I see it. BTW, HEAVEN is one of the eight trigrams.
> Its picture is three solid lines in the Early-Day and Later-Day
> trigram-sets.No difference in the 'HEAVEN' trigram, so the group name
> (Bagua) should not be used as such.
> +++++++++++++++
> Cheers.....al

+++++++++++++
Here is evidence of smother victim of misinterpretation in Mah-Jong
terminology.

索引 [pinyin suo yin] meaning INDEX. This 索引 is a term in my dictionary.

索 by itself is either (1) a rope [as a noun] or (2) to ask for or (3)
to demand, and 引 means guide or lead. Together 索引 is an index..

索 (suo3) had been interpreted as 'string' ( like a stretched thin
rope) by some one unaware of the different meanings when the same word
was used as verb.
Furthermore, 'cash-coins' were used as loose change because of their
value being a fraction of a cent, so it made no sense to tie them up
with a string. The interpretation was not based on knowledge of
Chinese culture.

I brought along 9 coins on a red string when I left China. That was my
parting gift for good luck and long life. It had nothing related to
Mah-Jong.
+++++++++++++

On Aug 7, 9:02 pm, al <a... DeleteThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 1:17 pm, al <a... DeleteThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > On May 17, 4:34 pm, al <a... DeleteThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 18, 10:35 pm, al <a... DeleteThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > Mah-Jong and Tai-Chi (victims of misinterpretation)
>
> > > > Who first translated Tai-Chi? I don't know.
> > > > The translation is a classic example of misinterpretation.
>
> > > > [..]
>
> > > > Philosophically, Tai-Chi is the ultimate place of origin, sometimes
> > > > referred to as the Great Emptiness or Void [..]
>
> But communicating in imagery, like the Chinese do, what is a better
> picture for birth (ultimate original birth) than the imagery of a female [giving birth such as 太]?
> Here was a supreme example of the old saying, "a picture is better
> than a thousand words".
That picture " 太 " is showing a baby just born.
>
> For all these years we have missed it. All it was because somebody
> gave it a [..] translation with no regard to its true meaning in
> concept, created mystery to the term which just meant that was where
> everything started, just like saying the No.1 baby was born, there] between
> two open legs.
>
It's interesting how 太 could mean in dictionaries and common usage as
an adjective, "extreme" or "ultimate". Well, leave it to the
imagination of the Chinese when it comes to use of metaphors. Just
think. When you can go as far as 太 with a woman, is that the ultimate
or what?
So, 太 can be a noun or an adjective. In fact 太太 refers to "wife" or
"lady".
>
> > > > [..]
>
> > > > Now when 2 words 太 极 can mean that much philosophically, one can
> > > > certainly consider the possibility and probability that 11 words ( 东南西北[..] 中 发 白 and 春夏秋冬[..] have
> > > > some meaning more than just "Cash, String and Myriad" in
> > > > the mahjong set.
>
Yet, all these years following the game's "discovery", hardly any one
(scholar or historian) attempted to give some meaningful correlation
between symbols and game-play. Instead tons of words written as
"serious work" in solving the puzzles of what the words and symbol are
called.
> Cash had nothing to do with the meaning of mahjong. [..]
Culin wrote that the terminology of mahjong was elusive and based on
slang.
> > > > [..]
> [..]
> Remember, Westerners learned about the game from illiterates [.]
> Because the game had existed so long ago before it reached the
> lower strata of [..] society; its philosophical [..] meaning
> vanished and substituted by folklore and [slang] already by
> the time the game was 'found' being played.
> [..]
But this is no mystery. People today do not appreciate anything
complicated than "Cash". They can accept imaginary Cash without square
holes and magical string of hole-less Cash. That is as far as it goes.
Cash need not relate to 东南西北 中 发 白 and 春夏秋冬. Since history has not
recorded older historians/scholar's work, that is all there is to know
until another ancient "document" or dated paragraph in a novel is
found. However, anything more complicated than simple Cash would be
incomprehensible. I seem to remember some one remarked to the effect
that for the past 85 or so years, the "Cash-suited" hypothesis has
been proven more than once. I don't recall reading how that was
proven, though...
>
> > > > Western influence was so penetrating 150 years ago, what was
> > > > translated, interpreted and written, right or wrong, by beginners to
> > > > the game while they were groping their way around for bits and scraps
> > > > of information then, still stands.
>
> This is amazing. Those expert historians were studying at only
> the [equivalent] levels of grade 2-3 Chinese elementary school. [..]
Their writing are still the authority of today. I wonder what the
serious scholars and historians have been doing.
> ++++++++++> [..]
Cheers....al

On Sep 23, 9:11 pm, al <a....RemoveThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 9:02 pm, al <a....RemoveThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 16, 1:17 pm, al <a....RemoveThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > On May 17, 4:34 pm, al <a....RemoveThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > [..][..]
> > > > > The translation [of Tai-Chi] is a classic example of misinterpretation.
> [..]
+++++++++++++++++
Here is something interesting. I have just noticed a Matiao (Ma Diao)
game on page 55 of Illustrated Book of the Mahjong Museum, a 1999
Japanese publication. What is so interesting is the fact that this
Matiao card-set has a whole suit of Tai-Chi or Taiji diagrams 1 to 9.

The description below the Matiao (Ma Diao) card set on page 55 is as
follow:
"[Photo 78: top right] wood block. Eight signs of divination are
written on the lower indices of Coins and Strings. The heroes of the
story Sankuochih are written on the Myriad. [Photo 79: top left] Cards
printed by the above printing block."

Three suits of cards in the Matiao (Ma Diao) set. One suit has 1 to 9
筒. This suit has the "Eight-Sign", 八卦 bā guà, printed on the 1-筒. The
筒 suit is represented by the taiji (tai-chi) diagram. The taiji or tai-
chi diagram is a yin-yang symbol of Daoism.

http://www.taopage.org/iching/image_7.jpg

http://www.mandarintools.com/cgi-bin/wordlook.pl?word=0x5366&searchtyp...rad&whe

(Refer to CEDICT for meaning of Bagua)

The 索 suit is represented by bamboo slips. The 1-索 is written the
words 占卜 (zhān bǔ), meaning to divine, as given in CEDICT.

http://www.mandarintools.com/cgi-bin/wordlook.pl?word=0x535C&searchtyp...rad&whe

(Refer to CEDICT, for 'divination')

By the way, the bamboo slip is called 签, a sign in words on a bamboo
strip, carries a divination message.

So in Matiao (Ma Diao), one suit has all taiji circular yin-yang
diagrams with Bagua 八卦 written on 1-筒; another suit has bamboo strips
called 签 for divination; 占卜 is written on 1-索; obviously, 索 and 筒
suits of Matiao (Ma Diao) relate to YiJing (Book of Changes or I-
Ching). The words 占卜 and 八卦 are printed on some cards. The symbols
shown on page 55, photos 79 of Illustrated Book of the Mahjong Museum
refer to divination, not money or strings of Cash. The word 万 is not a
finite amount of ten-thousand. 万 relates to a collective noun in
chapter 42 of Dao De Jing by Laozi. Part of the translation is as
follows:
++++++++++++++
Dao begets One (道生一)
One begets Two (一生二)
Two begets Three (二生三)
Three begets Ten-Thousand Things (三生万物)
++++++++++++++
In Daoism (and in the Book of Changes), according to Laozi, out of the
Great Emptiness (Birthplace Ultimate) came One.
The One is Yang; yang carries its polar opposite, Yin. Yin and Yang
are Two.
Two, as yin and yang, is represented by a two-eye Tai-Chi or Taiji
diagram,

http://www.taopage.org/iching/image_7.jpg

The Two can be graphically simplified as two lines in trigram
formation which have three lines. A three-line trigram of particular
order of combination is a symbol of a natural phenomenon such as Wind,
Fire, Thunder, water etc. as shown described in ancient terms.

http://www.taopage.org/iching/image_5.gif

http://www.taopage.org/iching/image_1.jpg

Eight of these phenomena represent the universe and its 万物 "ten-
thousand-things" including inanimate objects and living things and
human beings. The octagonal 8-Diagram is called Bagua, 八卦. The very
same writing is on the 1-筒 of the Matiao card in Photo 79 as mentioned
above.

In the book of Changes (I-Ching or YiJing), there is Early-Day Bagua
by Fu Xi and Later-Day Bagua by King Wen, involving a different
arrangement of the same eight trigrams in the octagon. Either
arrangement is 八卦.
Bagua is a symbol of myriads of "thing".

I will quote from The Living I-Ching of Deng Ming-Dao: "Fu Xi's Eight
Trigrams are arranged as opposites, but his hexagrams are arranged in
numerical order. King Wen's Eight Trigrams are arranged cyclically,
but his sequence of hexagrams is arranged as pairs of opposites."
As many people may know, a hexagram is one of 64 possible combinations
of six lines, broken and / or unbroken, used in divination, in the I-
Ching (Yijing). Also a hexagram consists of essentially two trigrams
when used in divination.
The assignment of specific quantity or fictional figures to the 万
symbol is ignoring and misinterpreting a basic Daoist concept of
creation.
+++++++++++++++
万,筒 and 索 are Matiao (Ma Diao) suits, as clearly named in Photo 79 on
page 55 of Illustrated Book of the Mahjong Museum. Mahjong has 3 suits
of the same names and therefore the same taiji (tai-chi) related
elements. Matiao (Ma Diao) and mahjong symbols have been
misinterpreted since / before Ming Dynasty.

Here is a summary of I-Ching divination symbols.
http://www.taopage.org/iching/iching_symbols.html

+++++++++++++=======
Cheers...
Allan Lee