Kara

Kz wrote:
>
> I once made it to the top of the pyramid. What I found was emptiness. I
> lost the desire to participate. Standing around Ironforge and showing off
> one's equipment, lasted all of about 30 seconds for me before I was bored as
> hell. Oh sure, there was a lot of other things I could have done, but I
> wasn't accustomed to doing those things. My total focus had been on
> reaching the top and having others look up to me. Unfortunately I didn't
> realize that once I reached the top, there would be nothing there. I found
> absolutely no joy. In fact I was rather depressed at the outcome.

Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.

--

Best Online comic: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html

"RogerM" <roger.mckay.TakeThisOut@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:46B909A0.E41208AA@ns.sympatico.ca...
> Kz wrote:
>>
>> I once made it to the top of the pyramid. What I found was emptiness. I
>> lost the desire to participate. Standing around Ironforge and showing
>> off
>> one's equipment, lasted all of about 30 seconds for me before I was bored
>> as
>> hell. Oh sure, there was a lot of other things I could have done, but I
>> wasn't accustomed to doing those things. My total focus had been on
>> reaching the top and having others look up to me. Unfortunately I didn't
>> realize that once I reached the top, there would be nothing there. I
>> found
>> absolutely no joy. In fact I was rather depressed at the outcome.
>
> Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
> grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.

And you only want the rep to get more items.
Although loot is important to improve your toon, I think some people get a
little too hung up on it.
I still enjoy seeing new content, experiencing new boss fights, trying
different strategies.

I think it was "3phase" <3phase.TakeThisOut@electrickery.com> that wrote something
like...

>"RogerM" <roger.mckay.TakeThisOut@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:46B909A0.E41208AA@ns.sympatico.ca...
>> Kz wrote:
>>>
>>> I once made it to the top of the pyramid. What I found was emptiness. I
>>> lost the desire to participate. Standing around Ironforge and showing
>>> off
>>> one's equipment, lasted all of about 30 seconds for me before I was bored
>>> as
>>> hell. Oh sure, there was a lot of other things I could have done, but I
>>> wasn't accustomed to doing those things. My total focus had been on
>>> reaching the top and having others look up to me. Unfortunately I didn't
>>> realize that once I reached the top, there would be nothing there. I
>>> found
>>> absolutely no joy. In fact I was rather depressed at the outcome.
>>
>> Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
>> grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.
>
>And you only want the rep to get more items.
>Although loot is important to improve your toon, I think some people get a
>little too hung up on it.
>I still enjoy seeing new content, experiencing new boss fights, trying
>different strategies.
>

I play for the chance to wipe mobs out. The more at once, the better.
I do like to have *some* reason to kill them though. To get motes to
craft some cloth when the cooldown is up is enough though. Doesn't
matter that I may not have any plans for the cloth, but the ability is
there and the cooldown says if I don't do it then, I'm being less than
efficient.
Helping out in instances if fun too. I main healed (or was it solo
healed) in the Blood Furnace with my 70 shadow priest the other day as
a guildy wanted to do the place. I got nothing from it except maybe a
bit of netherweave cloth. I just like seeing the mobs go down. If
the party members stay up it's just a bonus. ; )

I'd like to see the mobs in Kara go splat too, and getting better gear
from there to make the mobs go splat quicker and easier would be cool,
but it's not that big a deal. Doesn't matter where I go, mobs are
still going to be dying, so it's all good. ; )

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

"Hurricane" <Hurricane.DeleteThis@wow.not> wrote in message
news:E06ui.57446$2U6.13513@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Had my first visit to Kara on Sunday.
>
> First impressions was that everything hits very hard, it's very difficult
> to find your way back when you wipe, and the loot isn't all that.
>
> I must admit I was poor (even though I have reasonable gear). It seems to
be
> a lot more about skill/knowledge than gear which is a good thing I
> suppose.
>
> Coming back to the loot though, most of the Kara loot I have seen linked
> in my Guild including the two items we got off the Curator on Sunday,
> doesnt seem all THAT good. There was no rush at all to take the two
> purples that dropped for us and we are by no means farming this instance.
> In the end one guy said well if noone else wants 'X' I may as well take
> it.

What items? Kara has alot of gear that is replacable soon after, but one or
two bits are very nice.

> Given that was ages of play in a very difficult environment that depressed
> me a little.

It's actually been nerfed quite a bit. Kara used to be extremely hard. It's
much easier now.

> It seems to me that Kara (and after?) is more often about the visit than
> the reward. That's great of course for the players who don't group so much
> but the chances of any average Guild getting enough time to get enough
> runs in before we all have access to 80 greens which are better than Kara
> gear is slim.

There are some items in Kara that you wouldn't replace for a long time.
Whether you are tank, melee, ranged DPS or healer.

> It's not ruined my WoW life that I never killed the last boss in ZG for
> example so why should I be bothered with fighting through Kara, Grull,
> Black Tenple etc now when the next expansion will be out before I even get
> close to completing one of those?

It all comes back to "why do you play the game?". Is it just to gather
items?

really karazhan is a fun to play instance, with a very nice design and
background.
sure first steps arent easy in there, but the further you progress the more
fun it is.

we progressed beyond karazhan with our main chars but i like to revisit it
with my twink,
just for fun. ok my main character is a druid and they often have
responsibilities to take in the group
(either tanking or healing) the other character is a rogue, who does not
have to care about anything
but his own damage and survival, which is a very relaxed playstyle




>>> On 08.08.2007 at 00:05, in message
<E06ui.57446$2U6.13513@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Hurricane<Hurricane DeleteThis @wow.not> wrote:
> Had my first visit to Kara on Sunday.
>
> First impressions was that everything hits very hard, it's very
> difficult to
> find your way back when you wipe, and the loot isn't all that.
>
> I must admit I was poor (even though I have reasonable gear). It seems
> to be
> a lot more about skill/knowledge than gear which is a good thing I
> suppose.
>
> Coming back to the loot though, most of the Kara loot I have seen linked
> in
> my Guild including the two items we got off the Curator on Sunday,
> doesnt
> seem all THAT good. There was no rush at all to take the two purples
> that
> dropped for us and we are by no means farming this instance. In the end
> one
> guy said well if noone else wants 'X' I may as well take it.
>
> Given that was ages of play in a very difficult environment that
> depressed
> me a little.
>
> It seems to me that Kara (and after?) is more often about the visit than
> the
> reward. That's great of course for the players who don't group so much
> but
> the chances of any average Guild getting enough time to get enough runs
> in
> before we all have access to 80 greens which are better than Kara gear
> is
> slim.
>
> It's not ruined my WoW life that I never killed the last boss in ZG for
> example so why should I be bothered with fighting through Kara, Grull,
> Black
> Tenple etc now when the next expansion will be out before I even get
> close
> to completing one of those?
>
>
> I

"RogerM" <roger.mckay.DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:46B909A0.E41208AA@ns.sympatico.ca...
> Kz wrote:
>>
>> I once made it to the top of the pyramid. What I found was emptiness. I
>> lost the desire to participate. Standing around Ironforge and showing
>> off
>> one's equipment, lasted all of about 30 seconds for me before I was bored
>> as
>> hell. Oh sure, there was a lot of other things I could have done, but I
>> wasn't accustomed to doing those things. My total focus had been on
>> reaching the top and having others look up to me. Unfortunately I didn't
>> realize that once I reached the top, there would be nothing there. I
>> found
>> absolutely no joy. In fact I was rather depressed at the outcome.
>
> Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
> grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.
>
I wouldn't say that myself exactly although I agree about the loot. My own
personal thoughts are that the game at level 70 has been diluted,
hyper-buffing of some classes has screwed up the clear role definitions we
had pre-TBC. Also another factor that has taken a lot of the excitement away
from the game for me is the easy mode nature of many encounters, blizzard
catering for the lowest common denominator, nerfing content left and right
so the numpties don't get frustrated and stop paying their subs.
5 man groups are extremely enjoyable with a bunch of friends, especially a
well played dynamic in an heroic instance. The problem is if you play for
epeen loot then the game just becomes a drudge, an endless weekly line dance
for raid items. Unfortunately Blizzard seem focused on catering for those
loot obsessed, no life raiders more and more.
I crave more 5 man content personally - maybe one or two short Ramparts
style 5 man instances and one huge Karazhan style 5 man dungeon added each
year would go a long way towards helping break the raid or quit wall.
I've just started this week doing proper 5 man group tanking with my paladin
and except for one run in SL with an idiot, one dimensional shadow priest
obsessed with his damage meter peen, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm
actually looking forward to tanking heroics so I can help the guys and girls
who've been helping me this far.

"mbgaski@gmail.com" wrote:
>
> On Aug 7, 8:09 pm, RogerM <roger.mc....TakeThisOut@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
> > grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.
>
> What about the lower levels makes it fun? Is it social interaction?
> That's still there. Is it new instance content? That's still there.
> Is it professions? That's still there.

Even the professions are a terrible grind.

> I've never gotten this
> argument that "it's just a grind after you hit max level". If
> anything all hiting max level does is REMOVE one of the grinds - that
> being that pointless little bar at the bottom of the screen and the
> level indicator that you have to keep playing to tick up another notch
> every once and a while.
>

Quite simply - it's gaining new and better abilities from leveling. That
is the single most enjoyable aspect of playing WoW for me. The main
reason my mage is my only L70 is the gaining of new portal spells. Each
one added some functionality to my character. That's what I want from an
RPG.

> It's simply a myth that all endgame players are about loot. I like
> downing and playing against new bosses.

Yup, so do I. Too bad you need so much grinding to gear up beat them.
Not to mention the attunement grinds.

>For instance the last boss in
> Kara we haven't downed in our guild is Nightbane. This guy drops
> nothing I want - he could dump his whole loot table upon death to the
> whole raid and I'd end up de'ing it all. Yet that is the fight that I
> have most looked forward to for the last week or two - not the other
> bosses that we've got on farm, despite some of them still having some
> very good loot that would be a good upgrade for me. It's all about
> challenge, and more than anything "endgame stuff" just keeps you
> honest. You don't get into that VC group that feels like bringing in
> a few level 40-somethings "just to make it easier". You can't pay
> somebody in IF to solo it for you while you pick up the loot. No,
> you're gonna have to be max level to do this, it's still gonna be a
> challenge, and you can't cheat to get any help.
>

All my instance runs while leveling were a challenge, since I don't take
or offer run-throughs.

> Personally, I think the game would be more fun if they just removed
> levels. You start a character and it's there to play. Whatever
> content you want, whatever loot you can attain, wherever you want to
> PVP, it's just out there and ready. The whole game would already be
> "end game", and would be tuned in difficulty to support this, and it
> more fun IMHO, without the unnecessary leveling treadmill.
>
> Mike

how would you gain new skills/spells?

--

Best Online comic: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html

On Aug 7, 8:09 pm, RogerM <roger.mc....DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
> grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.

What about the lower levels makes it fun? Is it social interaction?
That's still there. Is it new instance content? That's still there.
Is it professions? That's still there. I've never gotten this
argument that "it's just a grind after you hit max level". If
anything all hiting max level does is REMOVE one of the grinds - that
being that pointless little bar at the bottom of the screen and the
level indicator that you have to keep playing to tick up another notch
every once and a while.

It's simply a myth that all endgame players are about loot. I like
downing and playing against new bosses. For instance the last boss in
Kara we haven't downed in our guild is Nightbane. This guy drops
nothing I want - he could dump his whole loot table upon death to the
whole raid and I'd end up de'ing it all. Yet that is the fight that I
have most looked forward to for the last week or two - not the other
bosses that we've got on farm, despite some of them still having some
very good loot that would be a good upgrade for me. It's all about
challenge, and more than anything "endgame stuff" just keeps you
honest. You don't get into that VC group that feels like bringing in
a few level 40-somethings "just to make it easier". You can't pay
somebody in IF to solo it for you while you pick up the loot. No,
you're gonna have to be max level to do this, it's still gonna be a
challenge, and you can't cheat to get any help.

Personally, I think the game would be more fun if they just removed
levels. You start a character and it's there to play. Whatever
content you want, whatever loot you can attain, wherever you want to
PVP, it's just out there and ready. The whole game would already be
"end game", and would be tuned in difficulty to support this, and it
more fun IMHO, without the unnecessary leveling treadmill.

Mike

<mbgaski.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186602897.485212.49470@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> Personally, I think the game would be more fun if they just removed
> levels. You start a character and it's there to play. Whatever
> content you want, whatever loot you can attain, wherever you want to
> PVP, it's just out there and ready. The whole game would already be
> "end game", and would be tuned in difficulty to support this, and it
> more fun IMHO, without the unnecessary leveling treadmill.

I'm sure that's the way lots of people feel, but I doubt I'd have kept on
playing if all characters were already "there". Part of the way I feel
about WoW is the affection and pride I have for my various alts when they
attain their separate goals and abilities, and knowing that the choices -I-
make really impact my game experience.

Xymmie

"RogerM" <roger.mckay.DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:46BA372E.897EE6EC@ns.sympatico.ca...
> "mbgaski@gmail.com" wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 7, 8:09 pm, RogerM <roger.mc....DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> > Once you have maxed your level, there is nothing but the loot and rep
>> > grinds. WoW at max level simply isn't fun.
>>
>> What about the lower levels makes it fun? Is it social interaction?
>> That's still there. Is it new instance content? That's still there.
>> Is it professions? That's still there.
>
> Even the professions are a terrible grind.
>
>> I've never gotten this
>> argument that "it's just a grind after you hit max level". If
>> anything all hiting max level does is REMOVE one of the grinds - that
>> being that pointless little bar at the bottom of the screen and the
>> level indicator that you have to keep playing to tick up another notch
>> every once and a while.
>>
>
> Quite simply - it's gaining new and better abilities from leveling. That
> is the single most enjoyable aspect of playing WoW for me. The main
> reason my mage is my only L70 is the gaining of new portal spells. Each
> one added some functionality to my character. That's what I want from an
> RPG.
>
Character development is what RPG should be all about and it is right up
until hiting level 70 then it effectively stops, I agree. Any further
character development (emphasis an character) beyond that point is
exclusively about the endless loot grind. Playing about with a different
spec is the only other option at level 70 but the nature of the endgame
steers most people, who want to be anything like effective, down some quite
narrowly defined paths.