A Hypothesis of the Name of the Game Mahjong.

$B!J(BNow I can see this message on the Google website but Ithinc's
original post is missing, so are those Chinese characters! Please
allow me to repost this message, with those Chinese characters
inserted back. ^_^)

On Oct 21, 8:44 am, "Cofa Tsui" <cofat....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "ithinc" <ithi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ad928b6f-094b-4db1-93c8-81b305c924e3@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Before the game mahjong was born in assumed Ningbo, its immediate
> > ancestor zhipai had been called $BKc?}(B(the game instrument and the game
> > itself were called $BKc?}GW(B and $B:5Kc?}(B respectively), pronouncing [majiang] in
> > the dialect, for years. So when born, the new game was immediately
> > called $BKc?}(B, pronouncing [majiang] in the dialect. When the new game
> > spreaded, some people learned the pronunciation [majiang] while some
> > people learned the writing $BKc?}(B(sparrow). The writing $BKc?}(B had various
> > pronunciations in various dialects, [maqiao](the official
> > pronunciation), [madiao] or [maque], etc. The people who learned the
> > pronunciation [majiang] didn't know how to write the name, so they
> > selected $BKc>-(B to represent it.
>
> (I couldn't see the above message on the Google newsgroup website - as I
> prefer replying via the website because of past experience related to the
> display of Chinese characters. This one is replied via my Outlook Express.)
>
> Hi Ithinc,
>
> Your hypothesis is quite reasonable, although I cannot verify the info
> because I do not know so much about those other dialects.
>
> On the other hand, it is my understanding that $BKc>-(B was rarely used before the
> game was "reinstated" as a sport item in China in 1998; at least it was the
> general situation outside mainland China if it was not so inside the
> mainland. I suspect that $BKc>-(B was chosen to be used in the CMCR (Chinese
> Mahjong Competition Rules, 1998) because the rule committee or the Chinese
> officials wanted to have an outstanding position of the game type (rules)
> they proposed, with respect to all other existing types.
>
> To verify my hypothesis, I wonder if anyone has any printed materials
> (preferably kind of official like the newspapers, etc.) from China prior to
> the CMCR containing the name of the game? (To see if only one written form,
> or various forms, were used.)
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
> Cofa Tsui
> International Mahjong[r] Infowebwww.iMahjong.com

On Oct 22, 12:00 am, cofam....DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi Ithinc,
>
> > Your hypothesis is quite reasonable, although I cannot verify the info
> > because I do not know so much about those other dialects.

Hello Cofa, Thank you for your reply. I'll re-post my hypothesis after
I finish the reasoning, maybe in some days or some weeks. If you're
interested, we may also communicate in private.

> > On the other hand, it is my understanding that $BKc>-(B was rarely used before the
> > game was "reinstated" as a sport item in China in 1998;

This is not the case. $BKc>-(B is the standard and only form of the name for
the game mahjong in Putonghua in Mainland China. It is the similar
case in Guoyu in Taiwan. In Cantonese people prefer $BKc?}(B.

> > at least it was the
> > general situation outside mainland China if it was not so inside the
> > mainland. I suspect that $BKc>-(B was chosen to be used in the CMCR (Chinese
> > Mahjong Competition Rules, 1998) because the rule committee or the Chinese
> > officials wanted to have an outstanding position of the game type (rules)
> > they proposed, with respect to all other existing types.
>
> > To verify my hypothesis, I wonder if anyone has any printed materials
> > (preferably kind of official like the newspapers, etc.) from China prior to
> > the CMCR containing the name of the game? (To see if only one written form,
> > or various forms, were used.)

Here is the National Library of China's website: http://www.nlc.gov.cn.
You can search books with $BKc>-(B and $BKc?}(B respectively. You'll find no books
about mahjong published in Mainland China from 1949 have $BKc?}(B in the
book title.

Cheers,
ithinc

It's VERY odd that ithinc's original post has disappeared.

<kongN8R DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bbaf9a47-b689-4ce6-83fb-8e7d6b231061@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> It's VERY odd that ithinc's original post has disappeared.

I now noticed that Ithinc's original post was in "Japanese (Auto-Select)"
encoding - I am not sure if this would be the cause.

Ithinc, thanks for your info. I'll try that source when time allows (super
busy now).

Cheers!

--
Cofa Tsui
International Mahjong[r] Infoweb
www.iMahjong.com

On Oct 21, 10:44 am, "Cofa Tsui" <cofat....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "ithinc" <ithi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> [..]
> > Before the game mahjong was born in assumed Ningbo, its immediate
> > ancestor zhipai had been called ??(the game instrument and the game
> > itself were called ??? and ??? respectively), pronouncing [majiang] in
> > the dialect, for years. So when born, the new game was immediately
> > called ??, pronouncing [majiang] in the dialect. When the new game
> > spreaded, some people learned the pronunciation [majiang] while some
> > people learned the writing ??(sparrow). The writing ?? had various
> > pronunciations in various dialects, [maqiao](the official
> > pronunciation), [madiao] or [maque], etc. The people who learned the
> > pronunciation [majiang] didn't know how to write the name, so they
> > selected ?? to represent it.
>[..]

I can add a dozen ???????????? to the above.
++++++++
>
> Hi Ithinc,
>
> Your hypothesis is quite reasonable, although I cannot verify the info
> because I do not know so much about those other dialects.
>
Your statement is interesting, Cofa. I wonder what is the rationale
for you to consider the hypothesis as "reasonable".

> On the other hand, it is my understanding that ?? was rarely used before the
> game was "reinstated" as a sport item in China in 1998; at least it was the
> general situation outside mainland China if it was not so inside the
> mainland. I suspect that ?? was chosen to be used in the CMCR (Chinese
> Mahjong Competition Rules, 1998) because the rule committee or the Chinese
> officials wanted to have an outstanding position of the game type (rules)
> they proposed, with respect to all other existing types.
> [..]

Here is what is in FAQ #11. I quote. "Recently, the Chinese have
changed the way they write the game's name. They no longer write it
as or $BKc?}(B (mah que, meaning Sparrows). Today instead they write it as
(ma jiang). Its meaning seems to be "hemp leader" or "jute general" or
"flax commander." I don't know why this change has been made - hemp
and military leaders aren't exactly a logical combination - but my
guess is that it was an attempt to find a more impressive-sounding way
to write the English word "mahjong"."
> --
> Cofa Tsui
++++++++++++
I think the "guess" in FAQ #11 in the above quote is more reasonable
than all hypothesizing.
Your reference th CMCR competition rules has merit. Mahjong and
Mahjongg have been better known internationally since Babcock.
++++++++++
The fact (assuming it's a fact) Mahjiang is not in any title of books
published after 1949 does not mean it preceded Ma Que. It also does
not say that the name Mah-Jiang was in existence when Ma Que was known
to Himly, Culin or Wilkinson 100 or more years ago.
++++++++++
Cheers...al

(This is a re-post. The first one from my Ourlook Express didn't seem
to go through.)

"al" <alee DeleteThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:
2ccd6f2f-8183-41c3-90ec-2b6eeaabe463 DeleteThis @x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 21, 10:44 am, "Cofa Tsui" <cofat... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "ithinc" <ithi... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message

[...]
>>
>> Hi Ithinc,
>>
>> Your hypothesis is quite reasonable, although I cannot verify the info
>> because I do not know so much about those other dialects.
>>
> Your statement is interesting, Cofa. I wonder what is the rationale
> for you to consider the hypothesis as "reasonable".

Hello Al, I hope you are getting well and will have full recovery soon
from
your incident - My warm regards!

My rationale that the (Ithinc's) hypothesis is reasonable is in the
hypothesis itself. I guess the use of the term "胡" (pinyin [hu]) for
winning has similar story. The term "和" (pinyin and in written form:
[he])
is pronounced as [hu] (pinyin) in the game of maque. People who don't
know
the fact would have to write [hu] into "胡" (in Chinese word). Again,
this
is just hypothesis but it sounds reasonable to me.

>> On the other hand, it is my understanding that ?? was rarely used before
>> the
>> game was "reinstated" as a sport item in China in 1998; at least it was
>> the
>> general situation outside mainland China if it was not so inside the
>> mainland. I suspect that ?? was chosen to be used in the CMCR (Chinese
>> Mahjong Competition Rules, 1998) because the rule committee or the
>> Chinese
>> officials wanted to have an outstanding position of the game type (rules)
>> they proposed, with respect to all other existing types.
>> [..]
>
> Here is what is in FAQ #11. I quote. "Recently, the Chinese have
> changed the way they write the game's name. They no longer write it
> as or $BKc?}(B (mah que, meaning Sparrows). Today instead they write
> it as
> (ma jiang). Its meaning seems to be "hemp leader" or "jute general" or
> "flax commander." I don't know why this change has been made - hemp
> and military leaders aren't exactly a logical combination - but my
> guess is that it was an attempt to find a more impressive-sounding way
> to write the English word "mahjong"."
>> --
>> Cofa Tsui
> ++++++++++++
> I think the "guess" in FAQ #11 in the above quote is more reasonable
> than all hypothesizing.

I doubt that! You've quoted: "(from FAQ#11)... my guess is that it was
an
attempt to find a more impressive-sounding way to write the English
word
"mahjong"." In my opinion, this is mostly from a foreign's point of
view and
perhaps from people who don't know the general character of the
Chinese
people, especially those of the mainland officials (sorry Tom ^_^). To
me,
saying that the Chinese officials elect to call a Chinese originated,
"ancient game" by a name that is influnced from a foreign name, is
highly
unlikely possible.

As pointed out by Ithinc, it is no doubt "majiang" by its
pronounciation
exists long before Babcock creating the term "Mah-Jongg" in English.
Therefore, in my opinion, linking the creation or use of the term "麻
将"
(pinyin [majiang]) to any known terms in foreign languages may not be
appropriate, and has no reasonable ground at all.

On the other hand, it is easier to call out "majiang" than
"maque" (in
pinyin) and this could be a good reason for the change (if this is in
fact a
change).

> Your reference th CMCR competition rules has merit. Mahjong and
> Mahjongg have been better known internationally since Babcock.

(I don't quite understand what this is meant for the current topic?)

[...]

Cheers!

--
Cofa Tsui
International Mahjong[r] Infoweb
www.iMahjong.com

On Nov 11, 5:35 pm, Cofa Tsui <cofat....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> (This is a re-post. The first one from my Ourlook Express didn't seem
> to go through.)
>
> "al" <a....DeleteThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:
> 2ccd6f2f-8183-41c3-90ec-2b6eeaabe....DeleteThis@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 21, 10:44 am, "Cofa Tsui" <cofat....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> "ithinc" <ithi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> [...]
> >> [..]
>
> Hello Al, I hope you are getting well and will have full recovery soon
>[..]
Thank you...

> My rationale that the (Ithinc's) hypothesis is reasonable is in the
> hypothesis itself. I guess the use of the term " " (pinyin [hu]) for
> winning has similar story. The term " " (pinyin and in written form:
> [he])
> is pronounced as [hu] (pinyin) in the game of maque. People who don't
> know
> the fact would have to write [hu] into " " (in Chinese word). Again,
> this
> is just hypothesis but it sounds reasonable to me.
>
As I see it, Cofa.
In the case of "he" and "hu", pinyin is different, but the Chinese
character is unchanged. 和 = "Hu" and "He"; whereas Ma-Que is written
unlike Ma-Jiang in Chinese. Furthermore, One means a sparrow, the
other is meaningless.
> [..]
> >> [..]
>
> > Here is what is in FAQ #11. I quote. "Recently, the Chinese have
> > changed the way they write the game's name. They no longer write it
> > as or $BKc?} (B (mah que, meaning Sparrows). Today instead they write
> > it as
> > (ma jiang). Its meaning seems to be "hemp leader" or "jute general" or
> > "flax commander." I don't know why this change has been made - hemp
> > and military leaders aren't exactly a logical combination - but my
> > guess is that it was an attempt to find a more impressive-sounding way
> > to write the English word "mahjong"."
> >>[..]
> > ++++++++++++[..]
>
> > Your reference th CMCR competition rules has merit. Mahjong and
> > Mahjongg have been better known internationally since Babcock.
>
> (I don't quite understand what this is meant for the current topic?)
>
I meant to say I incline to give the benefit of my doubt to the
"guess" in FAQ #11. That is to say the use of ma-jiang and the
displacement of ma-que is probably due the world-wide spread of the
name, ma-jong(g).

As I mentioned in another post, any real name in Chinese is chosen
with meaning in it. But ma-jiang is like ma-jong(g) totally
nonsensical.

Take another example like this, 马来西亚. The writing of the meaningless
words in Chinese depends on me sounding of the name Malaysia in
English.
> [...]
++++++++++
Cheers...al

On Nov 13, 9:10 pm, al <a....DeleteThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
[...]

> As I see it, Cofa.
> In the case of "he" and "hu", pinyin is different, but the Chinese
> character is unchanged. 和 = "Hu" and "He"; whereas Ma-Que is written
> unlike Ma-Jiang in Chinese. Furthermore, One means a sparrow, the
> other is meaningless.

Your explannation assumes you already know the Chinese word 和 in the
first place. If, on the other hand, you know *only* the sound "hu" and
has no knowledge about any related word, it would be reasonable to me
if you write either 胡 or 和 to represent the sound "hu". This explains
the same situation for "ma que" and "ma jiang" in the old day - And
don't forget, once a name is chosen, it really means the game they
refer to, hence it does has a meaning.

[...]

> As I mentioned in another post, any real name in Chinese is chosen
> with meaning in it. But ma-jiang is like ma-jong(g) totally
> nonsensical.
>
> Take another example like this, 马来西亚. The writing of the meaningless
> words in Chinese depends on me sounding of the name Malaysia in
> English.> [...]

But don't you agree majiang and majong both mean the game we both
know; and 马来西亚 (Malaysia) means *the* country in Asia? Aren't these
the meanings of these individual terms/names ^_^

Names are chosen to represnet things (hence a meaning is assigned).
Perhaps, "WHY a name is chosen" would be something you really mean to
argue about?

Cheers!
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

On Nov 14, 3:43 am, Cofa Tsui <cofat... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 9:10 pm, al <a... RemoveThis @ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> [...]
>
> > As I see it, Cofa.
> > In the case of "he" and "hu", pinyin is different, but the Chinese
> > character is unchanged. 和 = "Hu" and "He"; whereas Ma-Que is written
> > unlike Ma-Jiang in Chinese. Furthermore, One means a sparrow, the
> > other is meaningless.
>
> Your explannation assumes you already know the Chinese word 和 in the
> first place. If, on the other hand, you know *only* the sound "hu" and
> has no knowledge about any related word, it would be reasonable to me
> if you write either 胡 or 和 to represent the sound "hu".

I had assumed the names ma-que existed at least as long ago as the
game was discovered by westerners. Do you think people who called it
ma-jiang were aware of the meaning of sparrow? On the other hand do
you think they knew what ma-jiang mean? It would be difficult to
reconcile ma-que with ma-jiang in terms of words and meaning.
>This explains
> the same situation for "ma que" and "ma jiang" in the old day - And
> don't forget, once a name is chosen, it really means the game they
> refer to, hence it does has a meaning.
>
One means a sparrow. What could the other be, I wonder.
> [...]
>
> > As I mentioned in another post, any real name in Chinese is chosen
> > with meaning in it. But ma-jiang is like ma-jong(g) totally
> > nonsensical.
>
> > Take another example like this, 马来西亚. The writing of the meaningless
> > words in Chinese depends on me sounding of the name Malaysia in
> > English.> [...]
>
> But don't you agree majiang and majong both mean the game we both
> know;
But that is not what I mean, Cofa. It is difficult to communicate in
words. Ma-que is a bird; the Chinese characters in ma-jiang, as
questioned in FAQ #11, remain a mystery.

and 马来西亚 (Malaysia) means *the* country in Asia? Aren't these
> the meanings of these individual terms/names ^_^
>
Again, what I mean is that 马来西亚 has the words 马 = horse, 来 = comes, 西
= west and 亚 which I have no translation for it. So does 马来西 (Horse
Comes West (亚) mean anything other than matching the English
pronunciation?

I thought it was possible that ma-jiang followed mah-jong(g) the same
way.

> Names are chosen to represnet things (hence a meaning is assigned).
> Perhaps, "WHY a name is chosen" would be something you really mean to
> argue about?
>
> Cheers!
> Cofa Tsuiwww.iMahjong.com
+++++++++++++
It is just that when a Chinese name has no meaning, the general rule
is that it is not real Chinese name, as I explained earlier.
+++++++++++++
Cheers....al

On Nov 14, 2:43 pm, al <a....TakeThisOut@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 3:43 am, Cofa Tsui <cofat....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
[...]
> I had assumed the names ma-que existed at least as long ago as the
> game was discovered by westerners. Do you think people who called it
> ma-jiang were aware of the meaning of sparrow? On the other hand do
> you think they knew what ma-jiang mean? It would be difficult to
> reconcile ma-que with ma-jiang in terms of words and meaning.>This explains
> > the same situation for "ma que" and "ma jiang" in the old day - And
> > don't forget, once a name is chosen, it really means the game they
> > refer to, hence it does has a meaning.

You don't need to assume that: The name [ma que] (literally means
sparrow in English) existed much longer than that (westerners coming
to know the game).

Now, with Ithinc's hypothesis, in some regions in China both 麻雀 and 麻将
SOUND THE SAME in some dialects, which is equivalent to "ma jiang" in
pinyin. In other word, in conversations in those dialects, "ma jiang"
IS 麻雀 (sparrow). The word 麻将 (hemp general) is yet to be found to
exist at that time. This is for the old days. The earliest time the
word 麻将 (hemp general) is seen could be in 1914 in 百战百胜麻雀经 ("Baizhan
Baisheng Maque Jing") as suggested by Ithinc, but I am still verifying
this with him.

As to 麻将 [ma jiang] (hemp general) being used NOWADAYS, I believe it
has more to do with the pronounciation of various dialects in the
mainland China, rather than choosing a term with special meaning. And
I don't believe it has anything to do with any foreign languages at
all.

> One means a sparrow. What could the other be, I wonder.> [...]

They all mean the game we both know (^_^). Here, maque is no longer
the bird sparrow. Maque is *the game* the name represents. It is the
same for the term majiang. They all mean the same game. Period. But
you can ask WHY maque, or WHY majiang.

> > > As I mentioned in another post, any real name in Chinese is chosen
> > > with meaning in it. But ma-jiang is like ma-jong(g) totally
> > > nonsensical.

My understanding is different. You can *make* a new Chinese name with
good meaning, or without specific meaning at all. But once a name is
created, it will represent the "thing" it was made for, it then will
have its own meaning.

> > > Take another example like this, 马来西亚. The writing of the meaningless
> > > words in Chinese depends on me sounding of the name Malaysia in
> > > English.> [...]
>
> > But don't you agree majiang and majong both mean the game we both
> > know;
>
> But that is not what I mean, Cofa. It is difficult to communicate in
> words. Ma-que is a bird; the Chinese characters in ma-jiang, as
> questioned in FAQ #11, remain a mystery.
>
> and 马来西亚 (Malaysia) means *the* country in Asia? Aren't these> the meanings of these individual terms/names ^_^
>
> Again, what I mean is that 马来西亚 has the words 马 = horse, 来 = comes, 西
> = west and 亚 which I have no translation for it. So does 马来西 (Horse
> Comes West (亚) mean anything other than matching the English
> pronunciation?

I would say, before the Chinese term is created, it doesn't have any
meaning that matches any existing meaning in the Chinese language
system, at all. But once the term is created, it represents the
country called Malaysia in English.

> I thought it was possible that ma-jiang followed mah-jong(g) the same
> way.

The sound "majiang" should have existed longer than "mah-jongg".

> It is just that when a Chinese name has no meaning, the general rule
> is that it is not real Chinese name, as I explained earlier.

Please see above - "My understanding is different..."

Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

On Nov 14, 7:25 pm, Cofa Tsui <cofat....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2:43 pm, al <a....TakeThisOut@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 14, 3:43 am, Cofa Tsui <cofat....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
> > I had assumed the names ma-que existed at least as long ago as the
> > game was discovered by westerners. Do you think people who called it
> > ma-jiang were aware of the meaning of sparrow? On the other hand do
> > you think they knew what ma-jiang mean? It would be difficult to
> > reconcile ma-que with ma-jiang in terms of words and meaning.>This explains
> > > the same situation for "ma que" and "ma jiang" in the old day - And
> > > don't forget, once a name is chosen, it really means the game they
> > > refer to, hence it does has a meaning.
>
> You don't need to assume that: The name [ma que] (literally means
> sparrow in English) existed much longer than that (westerners coming
> to know the game).
>
> Now, with Ithinc's hypothesis, in some regions in China both 麻雀 and 麻将
> SOUND THE SAME in some dialects, which is equivalent to "ma jiang" in
> pinyin. In other word, in conversations in those dialects, "ma jiang"
> IS 麻雀 (sparrow). The word 麻将 (hemp general) is yet to be found to
> exist at that time. This is for the old days. The earliest time the
> word 麻将 (hemp general) is seen could be in 1914 in 百战百胜麻雀经 ("Baizhan
> Baisheng Maque Jing") as suggested by Ithinc, but I am still verifying
> this with him.
> [..]
>
> > > > As I mentioned in another post, any real name in Chinese is chosen
> > > > with meaning in it. But ma-jiang is like ma-jong(g) totally
> > > > nonsensical.
>
> My understanding is different. You can *make* a new Chinese name with
> good meaning, or without specific meaning at all. But once a name is
> created, it will represent the "thing" it was made for, it then will
> have its own meaning.

I agree. I see a subtle difference in a case such as this. Caterpillar
in English can be named 结大皮拉 following the approximate pronunciation
and eventually the Chinese people will learn that it is the hairy
worm, 毛虫.
The difference is 毛虫 has meaning, a hairy worm. The other is made up
from foreign elements, although they represent the same object.
> > [..]
>
> > It is just that when a Chinese name has no meaning, the general rule
> > is that it is not real Chinese name, as I explained earlier.
>
> Please see above - "My understanding is different..."
>
> Cofa Tsuiwww.iMahjong.com
++++++++++
Our understanding of the process may be the same. The only difference
is in our interpretation of the source. 毛虫 is native Chinese; 结大皮拉 is
anglicized. By comparison, Sparrow (麻雀) is native Chinese; 麻将 may be
anglicized. And then it may be not.
+++++++++++
Cheers...al

On Nov 14, 8:09 pm, al <a....RemoveThis@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 7:25 pm, Cofa Tsui <cofat....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > My understanding is different. You can *make* a new Chinese name with
> > good meaning, or without specific meaning at all. But once a name is
> > created, it will represent the "thing" it was made for, it then will
> > have its own meaning.
>
> I agree. I see a subtle difference in a case such as this. Caterpillar
> in English can be named 结大皮拉 following the approximate pronunciation
> and eventually the Chinese people will learn that it is the hairy
> worm, 毛虫.
> The difference is 毛虫 has meaning, a hairy worm. The other is made up
> from foreign elements, although they represent the same object.> > [..]

Chinese don't make new name after a name in foreign language for a
thing if that thing already has a Chinese name. However, if you make
Caterpillar a name for a product (say, a doll) then it is perfectly ok
to call the doll "结大皮拉" in Chinese.

[Accordingly, Chinese don't call the game in question 麻将 (ma jiang)
because the game's name in foreign language is mahjong. They choose 麻将
(ma jiang) for another reason, as I've established in another post.]

> > > It is just that when a Chinese name has no meaning, the general rule
> > > is that it is not real Chinese name, as I explained earlier.
>
> > Please see above - "My understanding is different..."
>
> > Cofa Tsuiwww.iMahjong.com
>
> ++++++++++
> Our understanding of the process may be the same. The only difference
> is in our interpretation of the source. 毛虫 is native Chinese; 结大皮拉 is
> anglicized. By comparison, Sparrow (麻雀) is native Chinese; 麻将 may be
> anglicized. And then it may be not.

Your above comparison could be wrong; as 麻将 is more likely come from
within the Chinese language system.

Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com

In my hypothesis, 麻将(Majiang) was a transliteration word from some
dialect, probably Ningbo dialect, into Mandarin. It was preferred than
麻雀(Maque) in the mandarin dialects, and then adopted in Guoyu/
Putonghua. 麻将(Majiang) has no literal meaning, but only as a whole
refers to the tile game. 麻将(Majiang) was ever written as 麻酱(Majiang)
and 马将(Majiang).

Cheers,
ithinc