Holy priest - what do I do wrong (or do I do things wrong)

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:38:01 +0000 (UTC), John Gordon <gordon.DeleteThis@panix.com>
wrote:

>In <4aa83565$0$36569$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk> "Marianne" <handel.DeleteThis@fjerndettelundbak.dk> writes:
>
>> For healing I use renew on tank/the tanking group members, followed by flash
>> heal and PoM. If things start to get 'hot' Greater heal, too. Occationally
>> PoH and HoH.
>
>As a holy priest, I wouldn't use flash heal very much. Greater heal is
>*much* more mana efficient.
>
>Flash heal is good for emergencies, but don't use it as part of your
>regular lineup.

Correct, *but* Serendipity gives greater heal a much shorter cast time
if you stack up 3 flash heals. It's now a nice balancing act; I tend to
use flash heal on non-tanks and greater heal on tanks, in raids I just
use flash and circle spam since greater rarely lands before somebody
else heals the target to full anyway.
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (75 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Dubh (65 Orc Death Knight)

Thanks a lot for all your comments. I think I got most of the things right
but I have also confused some issues. For example the difference between
having spirit and spell power. I have never really read about it anywhere
and have understood a healing spell as dependent on spell power more than on
spirit.

Now I have changed some of my gear, bought the right/better gems and made
the right enchants.(Luckily enough I have plenty of G).

Next step will be to try some of the addons you mention. I have healbot (but
use only 3 buttons) and click but nothing which measures the healing I do. I
think I tend to overheal which - of course - is a bad way to save mana. I
can definetly use healbot better - my problem is that I change between
playing at 4 different pcs/macs each with it's own mouse. And that
challanges customization.

It's nice to read the differences in healing sequences. Previously I used GH
a lot but actually Renew and flash heal + PoM suits me better. I think I
will go for a mix between more GH for the tank and less heal for the dps' in
general - but stick to my sequence too.

I suddently realize that I might have confused the role between tank and dps
too. I had the idea that it was necessary to keep everybody alive to take
the mobs/bosses down in general - but the tank can do it himself, right? It
just takes some time?

Cheers,


Marianne

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:01:05 +0200, "Marianne"
<handel.TakeThisOut@fjerndettelundbak.dk> wrote:

>Thanks a lot for all your comments. I think I got most of the things right
>but I have also confused some issues. For example the difference between
>having spirit and spell power. I have never really read about it anywhere
>and have understood a healing spell as dependent on spell power more than on
>spirit.

Mostly yes, but spirit is very good for a holy priest, since it gives
you both regen and more spellpower (through talents), so it's a stat you
want a lot of

>It's nice to read the differences in healing sequences. Previously I used GH
>a lot but actually Renew and flash heal + PoM suits me better. I think I
>will go for a mix between more GH for the tank and less heal for the dps' in
>general - but stick to my sequence too.
>
>I suddently realize that I might have confused the role between tank and dps
>too. I had the idea that it was necessary to keep everybody alive to take
>the mobs/bosses down in general - but the tank can do it himself, right? It
>just takes some time?

Yes, it's obviously better if the dps are alive, however on most fights
if they're dead, you can still finish the fight, so long as the tank and
healer are alive. Prioritise the tank and yourself first, dps are
expendable basically (much as they don't like to think so!) I've had a
lot of bossfights where myself and the tank have duoed some/most of the
fight; it's slow, sure, and can be a challenge to make your mana last so
long, but in *most* cases it's possible (some bosses have enrage timers
or deal more and more damage over time, those really need maximum dps
alive, but most don't have that in 5-mans at least)
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (75 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Dubh (65 Orc Death Knight)

"Marianne" <handel.DeleteThis@fjerndettelundbak.dk> wrote in message
news:4aa9771f$0$36571$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
> Thanks a lot for all your comments. I think I got most of the things right
> but I have also confused some issues. For example the difference between
> having spirit and spell power. I have never really read about it anywhere
> and have understood a healing spell as dependent on spell power more than
> on spirit.

Spirit doesn't actually make your heals stronger(unless you have talents
that convert spirit to SP), but it gives you more mana regen, which is
important for healers.

> Marianne

On 11 sep, 00:01, "Marianne" <han....RemoveThis@fjerndettelundbak.dk> wrote:
> It's nice to read the differences in healing sequences. Previously I used GH
> a lot but actually Renew and flash heal + PoM suits me better. I think I
> will go for a mix between more GH for the tank and less heal for the dps' in
> general - but stick to my sequence too.

Aye, healing for holy priests means a lot of trial and error to find a
healing style that suits you best, and then to pick the talents that
optimize this style (not the opposite! ). The reason why you might
prefer flash heal and pom could be that:
1) pom and renew are fire and forget
2) pom (and empowered renew to a lesser extent) can crit and toggle
surge of light, and that means a free flash heal.

Basically with that sort of healing style, in your place I'd
definitely favour spell critical rating on your gear for mana
management over mp5 when it comes to enchants and gems. You might
notice an improvement with your mana management if you replace, for
example, that Wyrmrest head enchant of yours (30 sp, 10mp5) with the
Kirin Tor one (30 sp, 20 crit rating), and maybe one of those mp5
trinkets with Serrah's Star (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37559) that
you can get from a quest in Coldarra. Basically, test this low-level
trinket, if you see you're doing as well/better mana-wise with it than
without it, then you can safely switch to Kirin Tor as your reputation
tabard

Catriona R <catrionarNOSPAM DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:01:05 +0200, "Marianne"
> <handel DeleteThis @fjerndettelundbak.dk> wrote:
>
> >Thanks a lot for all your comments. I think I got most of the things right
> >but I have also confused some issues. For example the difference between
> >having spirit and spell power. I have never really read about it anywhere
> >and have understood a healing spell as dependent on spell power more than on
> >spirit.
>
> Mostly yes, but spirit is very good for a holy priest, since it gives
> you both regen and more spellpower (through talents), so it's a stat you
> want a lot of

<http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=15031> being the talent in question.

> >It's nice to read the differences in healing sequences. Previously I used GH
> >a lot but actually Renew and flash heal + PoM suits me better. I think I
> >will go for a mix between more GH for the tank and less heal for the dps' in
> >general - but stick to my sequence too.
> >
> >I suddently realize that I might have confused the role between tank and dps
> >too. I had the idea that it was necessary to keep everybody alive to take
> >the mobs/bosses down in general - but the tank can do it himself, right? It
> >just takes some time?
>
> Yes, it's obviously better if the dps are alive, however on most fights
> if they're dead, you can still finish the fight, so long as the tank and
> healer are alive. Prioritise the tank and yourself first, dps are
> expendable basically (much as they don't like to think so!) I've had a
> lot of bossfights where myself and the tank have duoed some/most of the
> fight; it's slow, sure, and can be a challenge to make your mana last so
> long, but in *most* cases it's possible (some bosses have enrage timers
> or deal more and more damage over time, those really need maximum dps
> alive, but most don't have that in 5-mans at least)

You want to keep DPS alive to help kill mobs in a reasonable amount of
time (like before your mana dries up and you wipe anyway). But DPS are
too weak in melee to take on most mobs directly, so without the tank a
wipe is usual.

Thus the tank is your prime concern. If there's ever a choice between
healing the tank and healing DPS and you only have time to save one -
make it the tank. For that matter the tank should have a far smaller
safety margin - i.e. have HoT (heal over time) spells going on the tank
constantly during battle and heal their damage a lot sooner than you
would DPS. Without being too wasteful of mana, I heal almost _any_
damage the tank takes, stepping up to larger non-HoT heals and shielding
as required.

DPS I remain unconcerned about unless they're a) losing health steadily
past approx. 3/4 full, and/or b) being wailed on by a mob the tank
hasn't yet pulled off them.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

"Marianne" <handel RemoveThis @fjerndettelundbak.dk> wrote in message
news:4aa9771f$0$36571$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...

>
> I suddently realize that I might have confused the role between tank and dps too. I had
> the idea that it was necessary to keep everybody alive to take the mobs/bosses down in
> general - but the tank can do it himself, right? It just takes some time?

[ keeping in mind I have never run a healer , tank and dps only ]
Watch, learn, try to figure out what you did wrong, try not to do it too many more times.

Since you seem to do okay with some tanks then I don't see a problem. You
are inexperienced and undergeared, well duh, why are the other players slumming?
It is DESIGNED to be a little difficult. If they were any good they wouldn't need you


Dps only matter if there is a timer before untoward things happen, tank dps is usually
low
so a tank only fight would be much longer and they would take much more damage,
BUT the tank attributes are to reduce damage to a sustainable rate.
If you have enough mana, and the boss isn't enraging or something, theoretically
you and the tank can do many of the fights.

You mana is the tanks health, the tanks job is to attract attention and get hit
because they are best able to take the hits. They are avoiding 25-50% of
the hits, what gets through is 1/2-2/3 reduced by armour,
there should be no crits if they have enough defense,
AND they should be stacking high stamina.
Thats should buy you a leisurely 3-5 seconds to decide on your tank healing.
If you find you have time and mana to spare then the rest of the group can get some
attention,
if mana available, and replacement, minus the emergency bucket, permits.
If the tank is getting thumped, pay the rest no attention.

Without a tank the group dies, without a healer the tank dies.
If you are getting hit by mobs and the tank doesn't notice
then a dps should be trying to peel them away from you , even if they die in the attempt.
If you heal too much too soon you may be drawing agro, learn to time heals and
don't panic about keeping tank health maxed from the first second.
It often _is_ possible to hold off for a while and try to do things in an orderly fashion.

Tanks don't really watch their health, but they should be paying a little attention to
your health and mana.
Most tanks have a reserve heal, and there are cooldowns they can do to buy you time to
heal them but
usually not much compared to a dedicated healer.
If you have voice or observe their cycle you may be able to anticipate their cooldowns
and
use more efficient heals.
There are various websites for the classes, while you may not know the details
a quick browse of the strategy pages may give a better idea what the tank
is concerned with.

If the tank pulls without checking your mana first they aren't doing their job, if dps
are
pulling and you aren't ready then leave them until you are.
If you TELL them you aren't ready then explain to them after why they died.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:47:20 -0500, "Shiflet" <rshiflet DeleteThis @charter.net>
wrote:

>
>"Marianne" <handel DeleteThis @fjerndettelundbak.dk> wrote in message
>news:4aa9771f$0$36571$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
>> Thanks a lot for all your comments. I think I got most of the things right
>> but I have also confused some issues. For example the difference between
>> having spirit and spell power. I have never really read about it anywhere
>> and have understood a healing spell as dependent on spell power more than
>> on spirit.
>
>Spirit doesn't actually make your heals stronger(unless you have talents
>that convert spirit to SP), but it gives you more mana regen, which is
>important for healers.

As she is a holy priest, it most definitely does make your heals
stronger - any holy priest would be out of their mind to skip the talent
that does that
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (75 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Dubh (65 Orc Death Knight)

neithskye wrote:

>> The problem is that I run out of mana. And then the yelling starts:
>> Priests shouldn't run out of mana in normal instances.
>
> Our guild's main tankadin, and a good friend of mine, is geared in
> T8/10-man Ulduar gear. I love him to death, but when we go to Heroics,
> he tends to think he's unkillable. Yesterday, for example, he aggroed
> half the Proto-Drakes in that room in H UK. Not only did he have a lot
> of mobs on him, but he was taking a lot more damage by getting hit in
> the back while running around collecting them all. I did indeed run
> OOM trying to heal him.
>
> If people won't let you drink, don't be afraid to use your CDs like
> Shadowfiend or Hymn of Hope. It's not ideal, but if people won't let
> you drink . . . As a Blood Elf, I also Arcant Torrent a lot, a racial
> I find invaluable.

That's a really good point. 5 min cooldowns are there to be used! I
really hate having to stop pulling because e.g. a druid wants to drink
instead of using innervate in heroics. You really don't have to keep
your cooldowns for emergencies if you have a competent tank (one who
then DOES wait when you're out of mana, or before a boss fight).

However, your tank really has to watch your mana bar. I usually glance
at it and only pull if my healer has at least 60% mana (I wait longer if
I know healing-heavy pulls are ahead, obviously).

The same with tanks. I have had too many tanks die on me on trashfights
when something goes wrong without using their cooldowns. When you have
to pull the whole room because you can tank it once you stand there with
your shield towards them, use shield wall during the running around with
your back! With my tankadin, I tend to use bubble wall a lot in heroics.
Often it gives the healer enough spare time to regenerate most of their
mana without having to stop. Might be a psychologigal problem for
warriors since shield wall used to be a very special, very long cooldown.

Oh, and I rarely wait for DPS mana on trash. They can sit down and drink
while the rest of the group starts on the next trash pack, since groups
are mostly not restricted by not enough damage in heroics nowadays. All
these tactics obiously have to be scaled down the the equipment average
of the group.

"Catriona R" <catrionarNOSPAM RemoveThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7guogeF2r3nidU1@mid.individual.net...
> As she is a holy priest, it most definitely does make your heals
> stronger - any holy priest would be out of their mind to skip the talent
> that does that

Well, I don't know holy priest talents, hence why I included the caveat.

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:36:48 +0200, Matt Davis <mad_matt_55 RemoveThis @gmx.de>
wrote:

>That's a really good point. 5 min cooldowns are there to be used! I
>really hate having to stop pulling because e.g. a druid wants to drink
>instead of using innervate in heroics. You really don't have to keep
>your cooldowns for emergencies if you have a competent tank (one who
>then DOES wait when you're out of mana, or before a boss fight).
>
>However, your tank really has to watch your mana bar. I usually glance
>at it and only pull if my healer has at least 60% mana (I wait longer if
> I know healing-heavy pulls are ahead, obviously).

A druid tank can help a lot there, by casting innervate on the healer
themselves before a pull - ok, it kills your rage (due to shifting out
of bearform), but since enrage got buffed that doesn't matter so much
anyway.

>The same with tanks. I have had too many tanks die on me on trashfights
>when something goes wrong without using their cooldowns. When you have
>to pull the whole room because you can tank it once you stand there with
>your shield towards them, use shield wall during the running around with
>your back! With my tankadin, I tend to use bubble wall a lot in heroics.
>Often it gives the healer enough spare time to regenerate most of their
>mana without having to stop. Might be a psychologigal problem for
>warriors since shield wall used to be a very special, very long cooldown.

True indeed, I always forget I even have barkskin/trinket that increases
my dodge :-/ I do usually remember frenzied regen at least and I'm
trying to train myself to use berserk more often for a threat boost on
groups of mobs, but I tend to forget all about my cooldowns a lot.
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (75 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Dubh (65 Orc Death Knight)

Peter Knutsen <peter.DeleteThis@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in news:4aa85b72$0$293
$14726298@news.sunsite.dk:

> your description leaves out the
> shielding spell (I've forgotten what it was called). That's highly
> useful in groups, especially on the tank, alhough you should never use
> it on Warriors IIRC, because they need to take damage in order to gain
> rage. But if a Paladin is tanking, it should work well.

For leveling, go shadow spec. It's almost like being a warlock, except
without a pet.

Power Word: Shield is pretty handy in shadow spec to make up for the lack
of a pet. You dot up the mob, cast PW:S on yourself, and then alternate
Mind Blast and Mind Flay until the mob dies beating on your shield.

I assign 2 buttons to PW:S: one for the base spell, and one for a macro
that casts it on myself:

#showtooltip Power Word: Shield self
/cast [target=player]Power Word: Shield

The first line sets the text of the tooltip, and the second casts it on
yourself.

Here's a variation for casting levitate on yourself, handy when crossing
Lake Lordaeron or jumping from high places. It's one of my "oh, sh*t!"
buttons.

#showtooltip Levitate self
/cast [target=player]Levitate

I use the same macro slightly modified for my shaman, to cast water walking
on myself:

#showtooltip Water Walking self
/cast [target=player]Water Walking

I also recommend binding this macro to a button:

/incoming

This is hugely handy when playing with noob tanks, because you can holler
for help when a patrol hits you and the tank doesn't notice it. It's
amazing how much I use that button on my lower level alts.

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:39:56 +0000 (UTC), ScratchMonkey
<ScratchMonkey.blacklist.RemoveThis@sewingwitch.com> wrote:

>Peter Knutsen <peter.RemoveThis@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in news:4aa85b72$0$293
>$14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>
>> your description leaves out the
>> shielding spell (I've forgotten what it was called). That's highly
>> useful in groups, especially on the tank, alhough you should never use
>> it on Warriors IIRC, because they need to take damage in order to gain
>> rage. But if a Paladin is tanking, it should work well.
>
>For leveling, go shadow spec. It's almost like being a warlock, except
>without a pet.
>
>Power Word: Shield is pretty handy in shadow spec to make up for the lack
>of a pet. You dot up the mob, cast PW:S on yourself, and then alternate
>Mind Blast and Mind Flay until the mob dies beating on your shield.
>
>I assign 2 buttons to PW:S: one for the base spell, and one for a macro
>that casts it on myself:
>
>#showtooltip Power Word: Shield self
>/cast [target=player]Power Word: Shield
>
>The first line sets the text of the tooltip, and the second casts it on
>yourself.
>
>Here's a variation for casting levitate on yourself, handy when crossing
>Lake Lordaeron or jumping from high places. It's one of my "oh, sh*t!"
>buttons.
>
>#showtooltip Levitate self
>/cast [target=player]Levitate
>
>I use the same macro slightly modified for my shaman, to cast water walking
>on myself:
>
>#showtooltip Water Walking self
>/cast [target=player]Water Walking

For all the above macros: you do realise that simply turning on auto
selfcast in interface options removes the need for a macro? In all those
cases, so long as you have either nothing or an enemy targetted, it'll
cast them on you. And if you have a friendly player targetting, holding
down alt while casting the spell will selfcast it.

>I also recommend binding this macro to a button:
>
>/incoming
>
>This is hugely handy when playing with noob tanks, because you can holler
>for help when a patrol hits you and the tank doesn't notice it. It's
>amazing how much I use that button on my lower level alts.

That's a pretty good idea, never thought of that!
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (75 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Dubh (65 Orc Death Knight)