Helicopter question

On Aug 17, 9:35 am, Mxsmanic <mxsma... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me why I must hold the cyclic to the right in the Robinson R22
> helicopter in order to maintain straight and level flight?  If I let the
> cyclic return to its neutral position, the helicopter banks to the left.  Why?
> The Bell helicopter doesn't seem to do this (although I have so much trouble
> with the Bell that I rarely manage to get into stable forward flight).

I get this from any rotaries including add-on Jet Rangers and it is a
pain in the arse. If you go to spot view I have about a 10 degree
bank angle just to go straight.
That together with having to have the stick pushed forward makes it
sore on the old arm as you cannot (that I know of) trim it to fly and
let go

Ibby

I'm not sure if FSX helicopters models this or not...but in real
helicopters when the chopper is airborne and flying forward, the rotor blade
that is advancing into the oncoming air stream is moving through the air at
a slightly faster velocity (in relation to the airstream) than the
retreating main rotor blade is. This causes one side of the rotor disk to
produce slightly more lift than the other side, which would cause the
chopper to want to bank slightly while in forward flight. The faster the
forward speed, the more asymmetric the lift becomes across the rotor disk,
and the more that the helicopter wants to bank. This is why in real
helicopters the rotor blades are made to articulate (change pitch) as they
rotate through a cycle. I'm not sure if the Robinson R-22 has articulating
rotor blades or not, but this may be the cause of the banking that you are
seeing. Microsoft may not have modeled the rotor articulation perfectly, and
may have emphasized the asymmetric lift of the main rotor disk more than
they should.

Randy L.
--
"When making an emergency off-field landing at night,
turn on the landing light just prior to touchdown.
If you don't like what you see, then turn off the landing light."

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ajofa4d9g0po1lm8o9l3m4bcdi9r9erssk@4ax.com...
> Can anyone tell me why I must hold the cyclic to the right in the Robinson
> R22
> helicopter in order to maintain straight and level flight? If I let the
> cyclic return to its neutral position, the helicopter banks to the left.
> Why?
> The Bell helicopter doesn't seem to do this (although I have so much
> trouble
> with the Bell that I rarely manage to get into stable forward flight).

On Aug 17, 10:19 am, "Canuck" <any....RemoveThis@here.com> wrote:
> My first guess would be Torque! Probably unrealistically modelled within the
> sim.  Over the years I have read comments that suggest the realism settings
> for Helicopters be turned down some to get realistic flight.
> I don't know I have always avoided the choppers in FS other than a few
> experimental take offs and plummets.
> Actually it occurs to me that the last time I fired up FS9 was over 6 weeks
> ago and FSX over 3 months ago.  Just seem to have lost the enthusiasm for
> it.  Anyone got any remedies?
> Actually apart from browsing here and doing the daily look-see at several
> fav websites, I haven't actually used this box for anything else.
> Should I get an Air Mac?
>

I've felt the same way although I've been 'under the weather' for the
past month or so. Speaking of weather, that may be part of the
problem. When it's nice outside (and I know it is where you live),
there is little inclination to stay in a room for hours even if it is
doing something you like. In addition, there has been very little
additional excitement created by technology to incite us to use this
program more (other than scenery and weather enchancements).

I believe as the weather turns colder and the leaves put on their
autumn show, you and I will get back in the saddle and the lure of
flying in the clear blue sky, perhaps to southern warmth, which will
once again incite us to fire up the old jets and go for a spin.


Arthur

> Actually apart from browsing here and doing the daily look-see at several
> fav websites, I haven't actually used this box for anything else.

Perhaps you can do THIS with your pc instead
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5_tXcRYOYZ0

Ibby

If you can wait until tomorrow for an answer, I will ask a colleague of mine
tonight who flies the same aircraft in RL. Although, I suspect that if the
reason isn't torque from the tail rotor, or strong winds, you have a forearm
that has hideously over developed muscles from chronic masturbation!

Most likely torque from the main rotor, I suspect.

--
Yours Quilly,
http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/
"Carl" <me.DeleteThis@theworld.universe> wrote in message
news:cpOdnVL-wapnaTrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> If you can wait until tomorrow for an answer, I will ask a colleague of
> mine tonight who flies the same aircraft in RL. Although, I suspect that
> if the reason isn't torque from the tail rotor, or strong winds, you have
> a forearm that has hideously over developed muscles from chronic
> masturbation!

My first guess would be Torque! Probably unrealistically modelled within the
sim. Over the years I have read comments that suggest the realism settings
for Helicopters be turned down some to get realistic flight.
I don't know I have always avoided the choppers in FS other than a few
experimental take offs and plummets.
Actually it occurs to me that the last time I fired up FS9 was over 6 weeks
ago and FSX over 3 months ago. Just seem to have lost the enthusiasm for
it. Anyone got any remedies?
Actually apart from browsing here and doing the daily look-see at several
fav websites, I haven't actually used this box for anything else.
Should I get an Air Mac?


"John" <jamasonyy RemoveThis @yymsn.com> wrote in message news:g89bh0$t3t$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ajofa4d9g0po1lm8o9l3m4bcdi9r9erssk@4ax.com...
>> Can anyone tell me why I must hold the cyclic to the right in the
>> Robinson R22
>> helicopter in order to maintain straight and level flight? If I let the
>> cyclic return to its neutral position, the helicopter banks to the left.
>> Why?
>> The Bell helicopter doesn't seem to do this (although I have so much
>> trouble
>> with the Bell that I rarely manage to get into stable forward flight).
>
> I gave up on the R22 for this very reason. I fly remote control
> helicopters and know a bit about their theory of operations and this is
> not normal helicopter operation. If this *is* normal for the R22 then I
> simply have no need for it.
> John
>

"RandyL" <rlink.DeleteThis@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:bZKdnRaPQ_GYozXVnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>This is why in real helicopters the rotor blades are made to articulate
>(change pitch) as they rotate through a cycle.

Randy, my understanding from books I have read, is that the blades change
pitch each rev by means of the swash plate to give directional control. For
example, when moving forward, the blade pitch at the rear of the rotor disc
is increased so lifting the rear and lowering the nose to give forward
movement. Of course there may also be an element of correction as you
describe also going on but it is not the main reason for the repetitive
pitch change.

--
Iain
Rugby, UK

Hi Ian,
You are correct. My bad. The articulation that I was thinking of (but
which I identified incorrectly) should have been 'rotor flapping'. The
articulated helicopter rotor blade is hinged several different ways so that
each blade can actually flap up and down as well as change pitch. The blade
that is moving in the same direction as the aircraft will flap upwards
slightly to decrease the amount of lift for that blade by a small amount,
and the rotor blade that is traveling in the opposite direction that the
aircraft is moving will flap downward slightly to increase the amount of
lift for that blade by a small amount. This helps to even out the asymmetric
lift across the rotor disk due to the the advancing and retreating rotor
blades traveling at slightly different speeds in relation to the relative
wind.
My thought was that the rolling tendency some that people are noticing
in the Microsoft flight simulator helicopters may be the result of Microsoft
not modeling the asymmetric lift of the rotor blades accurately enough.
I appreciate you pointing this out to me. Take care...

Randy L.
--
"No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. "



"Iain Smith" <iainsmithdotrugbyatbtinternetdotcom> wrote in message
news:0MGdnd52z8Qj5zXVnZ2dnUVZ8t7inZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "RandyL" <rlink.TakeThisOut@cableone.net> wrote in message
> news:bZKdnRaPQ_GYozXVnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>This is why in real helicopters the rotor blades are made to articulate
>>(change pitch) as they rotate through a cycle.
>
> Randy, my understanding from books I have read, is that the blades change
> pitch each rev by means of the swash plate to give directional control.
> For example, when moving forward, the blade pitch at the rear of the rotor
> disc is increased so lifting the rear and lowering the nose to give
> forward movement. Of course there may also be an element of correction as
> you describe also going on but it is not the main reason for the
> repetitive pitch change.
>
> --
> Iain
> Rugby, UK
>

"RandyL" <rlink.DeleteThis@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:X5ydnc31JewRNzXVnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@giganews.com...
> My thought was that the rolling tendency some that people are noticing in
> the Microsoft flight simulator helicopters may be the result of Microsoft
> not modeling the asymmetric lift of the rotor blades accurately enough.

I think you're probably right there, Randy.

--
Iain
Rugby, UK

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic.RemoveThis@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:ajofa4d9g0po1lm8o9l3m4bcdi9r9erssk@4ax.com...
> Can anyone tell me why I must hold the cyclic to the right in the Robinson
> R22
> helicopter in order to maintain straight and level flight? If I let the
> cyclic return to its neutral position, the helicopter banks to the left.
> Why?
> The Bell helicopter doesn't seem to do this (although I have so much
> trouble
> with the Bell that I rarely manage to get into stable forward flight).

Most FS9 choppers are doing that, especially when flying with the realism
settings at high (

This and a few other things is why you have to move the realism sliders to
easy, when flying choppers in MSFS, to make them behave close to realistic
/

You can do a bit of trimming your self out of the problem, by adding a bit
of right rudder as you increase the speed, just as you have to when
increasing the throttle and/or main rotor pitch )

An other trick is to fly big choppers, the bigger and heavier they are, the
easier they are to handle in straight and level flight, but a lot harder to
stop and land.

Tommy C, Denmark

Well said TOCA. Heavier is better.
If you are flying in a relatively straight line for some distance, you might
tap the ENTER key on the number pad of your keyboard ONCE. That is the key
for right rudder. It will add and hold right rudder into the flight
dynamics . . . at least until you twist the stick or apply rudder pedal.
(The zero key in for left rudder.)

I fly helos a LOT . . . 100's of hours with a twist stick. My Realism
Slider NEVER goes above midway because I am trying to relax and have fun. I
don't want to impress anyone. . . just have FUN when I sim.

If it is a difficult helo to fly, (such as R22) then I will move the Realism
slider more left, toward EASY and I always have Crashes OFF. I am even
comfortable enough with my manhood that I will likely moving the slider 'all
the way' to trhe left if needed. The sliders are there to modify the sim to
the virtual pilots skills, else you could not vary it. Then, as helo flying
skills improve over several weeks, you move the Realism slider a bit more to
the right, depending on the characteristics of the beast.
PS: The default Robinson R22 is not an easy helo to learn in my opinion. I
find the default Bell 206 Jetranger much easier to handle. Hovercontrol.com
as many good choppers and also has some HUD displays that will help with
flying, landing and hovering helos, too.
Danny



"TOCA" <Not.RemoveThis@valid.com> wrote in message
news:48ac37ba$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic.RemoveThis@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:ajofa4d9g0po1lm8o9l3m4bcdi9r9erssk@4ax.com...
>> Can anyone tell me why I must hold the cyclic to the right in the
>> Robinson R22
>> helicopter in order to maintain straight and level flight? If I let the
>> cyclic return to its neutral position, the helicopter banks to the left.
>> Why?
>> The Bell helicopter doesn't seem to do this (although I have so much
>> trouble
>> with the Bell that I rarely manage to get into stable forward flight).
>
> Most FS9 choppers are doing that, especially when flying with the realism
> settings at high (
>
> This and a few other things is why you have to move the realism sliders to
> easy, when flying choppers in MSFS, to make them behave close to realistic
> /
>
> You can do a bit of trimming your self out of the problem, by adding a bit
> of right rudder as you increase the speed, just as you have to when
> increasing the throttle and/or main rotor pitch )
>
> An other trick is to fly big choppers, the bigger and heavier they are,
> the easier they are to handle in straight and level flight, but a lot
> harder to stop and land.
>
> Tommy C, Denmark
>
>

TOCA writes:

> This and a few other things is why you have to move the realism sliders to
> easy, when flying choppers in MSFS, to make them behave close to realistic
> /

Hovercontrol (www.hovercontrol.com) says that the realism sliders should be
set to maximum. The helicopters are hard to fly that way in MSFS, but they
are just as hard to fly in real life (according to them). Low realism is
unrealistic.

> You can do a bit of trimming your self out of the problem, by adding a bit
> of right rudder as you increase the speed, just as you have to when
> increasing the throttle and/or main rotor pitch )

Rudder just seems to make me yaw around. If I don't keep the stick to the
right, the helicopter has a tendency to bank sharply to the left.

> An other trick is to fly big choppers, the bigger and heavier they are, the
> easier they are to handle in straight and level flight, but a lot harder to
> stop and land.

I haven't even been able to get off the ground with the Bell helicopter. The
only one I have had any success with so far is the Robinson. I don't know if
the Bell requires the same constant stick pressure, but from what little I've
managed to do, it seems like it might not (?).