Thanks to the GW Players

Thus spake "arccos" <arccos DeleteThis @hotpop.com>, 16 Sep 2005 13:36:28 -0700, Anno
Domini:

>Hi there! I've been lurking for a bit, and after all the mostly
>positive comments about Guild Wars, I went out and bought it last
>night. The idea of a MMO being completely free to play online really
>appealled after WoW (and an awful week with RYL). Wow... this is an
>amazing game! The graphics are the best I've seen out of any game.

YMW Arccos!

>The instanced world is an interesting concept, but I'm not sure how
>much I like it yet. I don't like that I have to wait around spamming
>for a group in town instead of meeting up during a run, but it does
>make the group that much more close-knit when you click with someone. I
>guess that helps develop the guild aspect of the game as you build up a
>group you play with often. I haven't seen too many l33ts running around
>being jerks like mentioned, but then I don't hang around too long in
>towns.

You're lucky so far then. It is easy to ignore them, but they're about.

>The instant teleport is a great idea. If I've made it to a spot on the
>map, chances are very good I can make it back to where I started, so
>why not let me skip the travel?

Yup.

>I wish there was active PvP during the RPG portion. I like the way WoW
>does this. But that would prevent the instanced world from being
>possible, I guess.

I don't miss it, but then I played a lot of CoH & EQ2 mainly recently - no
PvP

>The amount of quests is great. I just wish the quests were more
>original with the rewards beyond the skills you can earn. Why would I
>want yet another staff? The quests themselves could be more original,
>too. The event-type quests are alot of fun, though. Maybe that'll pick
>up as I play, dunno.

Yeah, could be a bit more variety - the post-searing missions (if you've
Gone To War yet) is where the real game happens & there are great cut scenes
in the main storyline missions, plus all sorts of quest types as you get to
levels 10+. Enjoy the ride!

>Interesting and reasonably difficult combat! I have to use more than
>one skill all the time to win. And that is unlike any other RPG I've
>ever played. At least that's how it is w/ the Necro/Monk I've played.
>It would be even more so if I can find a group.

Heh - it's a 2-way street. We've started a guild of sorts for this group -
let me know your main char's name & I'll send you a guild invite (if I can
while you're offline). We also have a weekly team game which will hopefully
expand to other guild activities down the track. My char is "Nostromo the
Alien" - put me on your flist & we'll bump into each other eventually .

>Only one other possible party member in my group? I can understand that
>in terms of play balance, I guess, but what if I wanted to play with a
>larger group of friends? This changes, I hear?

You get 4 after just 1 mission in post-searing & 6 soon after. 8 is in the
2nd part of the game I believe.

>Upgrade system good, equipment system ok. Every piece of equipment in
>all RPGs seems to be the same to me. I wish my pet (the skeleton or
>whatever) would regenerate instead of degenerate. Seems to be almost
>useless so far, except for quests that require a sacrifice. The idea of
>allowing the skipping of the RPG elements but making RPG worthwhile is
>a great, great, GREAT idea, and I hope all PvP games take notice.

The minions get better & last longer as your Death Magic skill increases, so
you can have more of them out. There are also regen skills to keep them
alive longer later on. Personally, I hate the degen thing too - wish there
was a way to keep them for the life of a zone instance, or some way to top
them up (combat dmg they inflict?). There are good AOE healing/regen skills
you get later on that keep them around for a very long time (with 10+ in
Death Magic). Glad I picked N/Ranger so I always have at least one pet
around ;-p

>All in all, alot of fun so far! But it doesn't feel like a MMO without
>it being massively-multiplayer. I can't wait to try out the PvP
>content! Thanks for all the good words about a great game.

Just jump in - you can put together a basic 20th char for free - you just
won't have any unlocked Elite skills, but you can still have a bash!

>-Arccos
>
>Currently MMOs:
>World Of Warcraft
>A Tale In The Desert
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I liked this mmorpg a lot as well - just needed to KILL something after a
couple months he he

>Guild Wars


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Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo DeleteThis @spamfree.net.au> in
1jimi15os1ic05bqj07fn189hbcsfnivb0 DeleteThis @4ax.com
> The minions get better & last longer as your Death Magic skill
> increases, so you can have more of them out. There are also regen
> skills to keep them alive longer later on. Personally, I hate the
> degen thing too - wish there was a way to keep them for the life of a
> zone instance, or some way to top them up (combat dmg they inflict?).
> There are good AOE healing/regen skills you get later on that keep
> them around for a very long time (with 10+ in Death Magic). Glad I
> picked N/Ranger so I always have at least one pet around ;-p

apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals very
little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from attacking you,
while you attack it.

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Take out the _CURSING to reply to me

Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:55:51 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll RemoveThis @kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>You can go surprisingly far in the game with no other players at all,
>>although the intense stupidity of the henchmen can get very trying at
>>times.
>
>Some real people you can end up playing with make you dearly wish you
>had brought henchmen along instead!

Oh I know.
I don't even have to team with them to know how bad they could be, just
their behavior in the towns is enough.

I still wish the henchmen either had a bit better AI or would take some
basic orders.

It gets _really_ annoying to have to rez the healer after every single
fight because she decides that the best place to heal from is either
right beside the melee guys or standing between the melee guys and the
ranged enemy so she gets targeted by so many she's dead in seconds.

Not to mention the times I let enemies come to me so I don't end up
spawning more (devourers and such), and she runs past and activates
another group that all target her.

Why on earth a healer wants to do ranged heals from point blank range is
just beyond me, and why the hell she has to stand ON the corpse of the
person she's resurrecting, when resurrect has a pretty good range...

Not to mention her strange refusal to heal herself since the last patch,
she'll get severely wounded (ie 10% health left) and will wait until she
regens up to 20% health before she'll cast a heal on herself, even if no
one else has been hurt and she's at full mana.

Of course most of the time there are enemies near and that 10% doesn't
get a chance to regen up before she's hit again and killed.


Subtle pressure from the devs to group with real people i'm assuming.


Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

Quoth The Raven: Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002 RemoveThis @NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> in
j1tni1tqi1jgjr86n98j6r2b72joge86r6 RemoveThis @4ax.com
> Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING RemoveThis @dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>> apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals
>> very little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from
>> attacking you, while you attack it.
>
> That would be Oink... he's an npc, not a pet, and one of the
> "celebrity" npcs of the game (together with Gwen and the International
> Frog of Mystery).
> However, rangers pets do evolve with level (grow tougher and
> physically bigger).

are you sure, while I haven't met the pig, I read he can be available to
all rangers as a pet, at least for those who can find him, and can be
kept forever. of course it might have been patched out by now, I was
reading about exploits in the game, like a bag of gold that drops near a
fisherman's village as you run past a certain spot. repeat ad nauseam
and the bag keeps falling. someone claims to have made 75k from that
exploit.

--
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then wears dark glasses to avoid being recognised.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me

Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING RemoveThis @dodo.com.au>, Sat, 17 Sep 2005
10:44:06 +1000, Anno Domini:

>Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo RemoveThis @spamfree.net.au> in
>1jimi15os1ic05bqj07fn189hbcsfnivb0@4ax.com
>> The minions get better & last longer as your Death Magic skill
>> increases, so you can have more of them out. There are also regen
>> skills to keep them alive longer later on. Personally, I hate the
>> degen thing too - wish there was a way to keep them for the life of a
>> zone instance, or some way to top them up (combat dmg they inflict?).
>> There are good AOE healing/regen skills you get later on that keep
>> them around for a very long time (with 10+ in Death Magic). Glad I
>> picked N/Ranger so I always have at least one pet around ;-p
>
>apparently there is a pig for the ranger that is immortal, it deals very
>little damage, but it is enough to distract a foe from attacking you,
>while you attack it.

Heh, never heard of it, but it sound good. There is Oink in the Kryta
mission, but he's a sub-mission NPC. Unless you can keep him if you don't
complete the mission...?

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Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.

Quoth The Raven: Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002 DeleteThis @NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> in
v0epi1hf9hej9ph8uivou43ir3d35r7gs9 DeleteThis @4ax.com
> Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING DeleteThis @dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>> you need hints on how to make cash
>>> just ask me, because I very much doubt anything at all on cheat
>>> sites will pan out.
>>
>> hmmm yes please! I know about making gold dye mixtures from yoss
>> which is trading at 1 k
>
> That's a losing proposition. Lots of work and abuse for something
> which probably wont sell.
>
> The only reliable ways of making money is
> a) speculation (the prices at the rune/dye/raw materials traders
> fluctuate, and you can buy cheap and sell expensive - people have got
> enormously rich that way. Too boring for me though), and
> b) farming, ie find an area with monsters you can kill and which drop
> stuff, and kill them over and over and over. I'm not sure exactly
> where you are, but there are plenty of areas which still give good
> returns (though not so good after the patch, as you basically can't
> sell anything to other players any more and the merchants pay
> pitifully).
>
> Chest-farming used to be popular but is now completely useless as a
> means of making money - the keys cost more than the content of the
> chest 99 times of 100. You do get tons of unlocks, though.

did you play today? I have only woken up from partying hard last night,
no point joining the rest of them this late. I can barely gather my wits
to play.

--
A feature is a bug with seniority.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me

Well actually, eventhough I have never played GuildWars except for the
public beta test a long time ago. But I must picture that GuildWars is
not even a real mmorpg. Yeah Guildwars is nice to play every once in a
while eventhough it doesn't feel massivly. Something like Diablo in 3D
I'm just guessing.

However, you internet junkies or gamers cannot always rely on free
mmorpgs mainly because the majority of good quality mmorpgs come with a
monthly price tag.

--Akafoche

Jumpgate: http://www.jossh.com - http://www.themis-group.com/jg/
A space simulator & RPG with a skilled based flight system.
Http://jgportal.50webs.com - Links to other JG resources.

arccos wrote:
> Upgrade system good, equipment system ok. Every piece of equipment in
> all RPGs seems to be the same to me. I wish my pet (the skeleton or
> whatever) would regenerate instead of degenerate. Seems to be almost
> useless so far, except for quests that require a sacrifice. The idea of
> allowing the skipping of the RPG elements but making RPG worthwhile is
> a great, great, GREAT idea, and I hope all PvP games take notice.
>

Far as I know, if you skip the RPG portion you will be completely
non-competitive in PvP. DAoC has this problem too, where the Trials of
Atlantis endgame PvE expansion increases your PvP power level so much
that you cannot fairly compete if you haven't bought it and completed
it.

I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
(axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
experience.

I also don't like the idea that you have to farm your character's
skills. I understand the high end reasoning behind it, to promote
balance and variety in PvP so every character isn't like every other
character. But it means you cannot decide to build a certain type of
character and guarantee that you are able to build it. I think the
devs should have included more viable options so that different
character builds would be attractive rather than just limiting access
to the good skills. See WoW and DAoC -- both games have multiple
popular builds for each character class and neither one restricts your
freedom in any meaningful weay to get any particular skill or spell.

I just found it too much work for not a lot of return. It's fun for a
while experimenting with the different class and skill combinations.
But you hit max level way, way before the game is completed. And then
you're pretty much just working towards access to the high end areas,
so that you can farm those high end areas to unlock stuff to use in
PvP. I would have preferred a more smooth progression, or a higher
level limit.

Looking back at my comments, I sound pretty negative. I don't really
think GW is a bad game. I had fun with it for a while. I just think
there's too little for a PvE game, but too much PvE for a PvP game. GW
tries to be both but there's just not enough meat to it on the PvE side
to be satisfying, and it's too long a haul leveling up and farming
stuff before you can make the PvP character you want. I just don't
think GW succeeds in its goal. I did enjoy it, but once I hit high
level and realized I was only around 1/2 - 2/3 finished with the map, I
lost interest. I didn't feel like doing that much PvE with no level
gains and boring loot to look forward to, and I didn't feel like PvPing
with just pre-made characters. It was fun up until that point, though.
But I went back to DAoC.

patrick.barnes.TakeThisOut@standardregister.com wrote:

>
> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
> experience.
>

Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
game in my eyes.

If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.

After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
systems are much better in NWN.

Nostromo wrote:
> Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay.TakeThisOut@ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:46:32
> GMT, Anno Domini:
>
> >patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
> >> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
> >> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
> >> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
> >> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
> >> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
> >> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
> >> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
> >> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
> >> experience.
> >>
> >
> >Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
> >game in my eyes.
>
> Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p
> It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
> your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys. That does NOT a
> rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
> different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers. WoW I haven't tried as
> a matter of principle.
>

Hey, I posted a long message about GW, including stuff about the game
length, level limits, skill availability, etc. Don't just pull one
thing out and say it's "all about loot to me."

And it's not about uber high end items anyway. It's about the items
being boring.

It's the hammer-axe-sword thing. Each one has a purpose and a
situation in which it excels. It makes for a clearly defined set of
parameters for PvP from which to choose your strategies. But it also
makes for a limited PvE game. There's very little variety in the armor
either. Each class has basically just 2 types of armor to choose from,
and there are no armor drops in the game that I ever saw. It's all
store bought. All the good focus items I ever found had specific skill
requirements on them -- even when the bonus on the item has nothing to
do with that skill -- so not only could just one class use them, but
only a character specced the right way.

Characters in GW remind me of one of those build-your-own-units RTS
games like Earth 2150, where you mix and match units from a limited set
of building blocks. Pick a weapon type, a movement type, and a chassis
to mount them on, and then duke it out. It's like in GW where you go
"I'll build sword weapon warrior with shield and light armor" or "I'll
do 2h hammer with heavy armor". The choices are very archetypical.
And the PvE game is like the RTS campaign missions that determine which
building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you have access to.
This kind of thing works great in strategy games, but it doesn't make
for a very deep RPG.

Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay.TakeThisOut@ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:46:32
GMT, Anno Domini:

>patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
>> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
>> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
>> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
>> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
>> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
>> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
>> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
>> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
>> experience.
>>
>
>Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
>game in my eyes.

Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p
It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys. That does NOT a
rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers. WoW I haven't tried as
a matter of principle.

>If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.

LOL! So GW is a better game in every way...except it doesn't have ph4t l00t?


>After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
>server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
>systems are much better in NWN.

NWN isn't even in the same league as GW imo. But, opinions being like
arseholes...*sigh*. Yes, GW could use a player crafting system, but that's
not its focus.

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Nostromo wrote:

> Thus spake RogerM <rodger.mckay DeleteThis @ns.sympatico.ca>, Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:46:32
> GMT, Anno Domini:
>
> >patrick.barnes@standardregister.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I don't like GW's loot system at all. I found it very boring. The
> >> variety of weapons and armor is miniscule, and any one character can
> >> pretty much only use one type of weapon and armor without needing to
> >> respec (not that respeccing is all that difficult, but still, find a
> >> decent axe and you have to rework your whole strategy if you're
> >> currently a sword user, for example, before you can even equip it)
> >> There is no variety to speak of, the item bonuses are unexciting for
> >> the most part. This sort of simple rock-paper-scissors
> >> (axe-hammer-sword) thing is fine for PvP, but it makes for a dull PvE
> >> experience.
> >>
> >
> >Yes, absolutely. Boring gear. A big flaw in an RPG. The biggest flaw in the
> >game in my eyes.
>
> Yeah, that's why CoH was also such a big commercial failure, ey? ;-p

Different games, different settings. I haven't played it, but I have heard that it
has temporary power ups which serve a similar purpose. Finding neat magic items
that do weird and wonderful things is a major part of the fun of S&S RPGs. Deal.

>
> It's obvious (& I don't even need to state it for others, but I'll do it for
> your 2 benefits) that 'rpg' means ph4t l00t to you 2 guys.

Not to me. It does mean (as one aspect) finding treasure that is special, not
picking up a dozen swords or pairs of gloves with the same +5 spirit, +5 armour
ratings. Each of which will earn you 3 or 4 gp when you drag them back to town.
Variety is the spice of life, and GW's treasure is just so GENERIC and dull.

I have just moved my L8 Necro/Monk to the post-searing phase. Perhaps the game
will be more interesting, but I'm not seeing it so far.

> That does NOT a
> rpg make. Kudos to CoH & GW for stepping out & daring to do something
> different for us more casual, time-restricted gamers.

As far as capturing the wonder and mystery of S&S, GW is half-assed at best. Dull,
dull, dull. Pretty, yes, but a GAME needs more than that.

> WoW I haven't tried as
> a matter of principle.
>
> >If WoW had GW's instances and combat system, THAT would be a fine game.
>
> LOL! So GW is a better game in every way...except it doesn't have ph4t l00t?
>
>

In "every" way? No. In those two ways. The 'loot' shouldn't be boring. In GW, it
is. GW is a S&S game for accountants.

I can admit each game's strengths and weaknesses. Can you?

>
> >After 2 1/2 months of WoW (and two weeks of GW), I'm back on my favourite NWN
> >server. I really miss WoW's crafting systems, but the combat and magic
> >systems are much better in NWN.
>
> NWN isn't even in the same league as GW imo.

In what way? GW is prettier, for sure. In what other ways do you think it is
superior?

> But, opinions being like
> arseholes...*sigh*. Yes, GW could use a player crafting system, but that's
> not its focus.

Being a fun experience for anyone but diehard PvPers isn't its focus apparently.

Try not to make an "opinion" of yourself if you choose to reply.

patrick.barnes RemoveThis @standardregister.com wrote:
> determine which building blocks -- skills and runes/equipment -- you
> have access to. This kind of thing works great in strategy games, but
> it doesn't make for a very deep RPG.


GW is far more a RTS than an RPG IMO. (Heh, I just love throwing acronyms
around like that--)

I don't much like it either, including for some of the reasons you mention.
It's good at what it is, I suppose, but what it's good at is something I
don't really care a lot about.

--
chainbreaker