Next Expansion

On Jan 3, 1:43 pm, brandonsantac....DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 3, 8:37 am, Baaliprimogen <VegardKi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi.
> > Is there any date on the next one? I'm so hungry for more right now...
> > Any Ideas on what kind of expansion it will be?
> > I guess it will be a 60 or 160 card sett, but with what kind of
> > setting? More KMW? Maybe called Archons & Templars? Guess it won't be
> > another Gehenna sett, since there is almost enough Gehenna cards
> > already, or they could focus on the Gehenna cults.
> > The question is also: Are we done with group 5? Is there time for gr
> > 6? If there is time for gr 6 we can get more bloodlines, Laibon and
> > Imbueds (or other kind of allies).
> > If we get starters, then which. The clans that hasn't be released
> > twice is:
> > Cam:
> > Nosferatu, Tremere
> > Sabbat:
> > Lasombra, !Gangrel, !Nos, !Tor, !Vent
> > Indy:
> > Gangrel
> > Misc:
> > Baalis, Laibons and the other theme decks, but I don't think they
> > count in this.
>
> > Any thoughts, rumours or wishes ?
>
> Without looking at the individual clan break-downs, here are the
> number of crypt cards for each group according to ARDB:
> 1: 115
> 2: 392
> 3: 235
> 4: 405
> 5: 143
>
> As you can see, after group one, group five is the one in need of the
> most vampires. Since there are not going to be any more group one
> vampires, maybe a set or two of group five before trying to go to
> group six ? *shudder*
>
We may get one more set of group 5. IMHO, though, after that set,
we'll probably see a mixture of 5 and 6 in any new sets, until group 5
is full. In fact, the next set may well have a mixture of group 5 and
6, although with the relative dearth of group 5 vamps, the group 6's
would be pretty crippled by crypt selection...

On Jan 3, 12:42 pm, Chris Berger <ark... DeleteThis @ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 1:43 pm, brandonsantac... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > On Jan 3, 8:37 am, Baaliprimogen <VegardKi... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi.
> > > Is there any date on the next one? I'm so hungry for more right now....
> > > Any Ideas on what kind of expansion it will be?
> > > I guess it will be a 60 or 160 card sett, but with what kind of
> > > setting? More KMW? Maybe called Archons & Templars? Guess it won't be
> > > another Gehenna sett, since there is almost enough Gehenna cards
> > > already, or they could focus on the Gehenna cults.
> > > The question is also: Are we done with group 5? Is there time for gr
> > > 6? If there is time for gr 6 we can get more bloodlines, Laibon and
> > > Imbueds (or other kind of allies).
> > > If we get starters, then which. The clans that hasn't be released
> > > twice is:
> > > Cam:
> > > Nosferatu, Tremere
> > > Sabbat:
> > > Lasombra, !Gangrel, !Nos, !Tor, !Vent
> > > Indy:
> > > Gangrel
> > > Misc:
> > > Baalis, Laibons and the other theme decks, but I don't think they
> > > count in this.
>
> > > Any thoughts, rumours or wishes ?
>
> > Without looking at the individual clan break-downs, here are the
> > number of crypt cards for each group according to ARDB:
> > 1: 115
> > 2: 392
> > 3: 235
> > 4: 405
> > 5: 143
>
> > As you can see, after group one, group five is the one in need of the
> > most vampires. Since there are not going to be any more group one
> > vampires, maybe a set or two of group five before trying to go to
> > group six ? *shudder*
>
> We may get one more set of group 5.  IMHO, though, after that set,
> we'll probably see a mixture of 5 and 6 in any new sets, until group 5
> is full.  In fact, the next set may well have a mixture of group 5 and
> 6, although with the relative dearth of group 5 vamps, the group 6's
> would be pretty crippled by crypt selection...

Is the plan to treat the even-numbered groups as the main ones, making
the odd-numbered ones the auxiliaries? How many groups can there be
before new players write off the old ones (as I have done with group
3)?

Brandon

On Jan 3, 2:47 pm, brandonsantac... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 3, 12:42 pm, Chris Berger <ark... DeleteThis @ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>
> > We may get one more set of group 5.  IMHO, though, after that set,
> > we'll probably see a mixture of 5 and 6 in any new sets, until group 5
> > is full.  In fact, the next set may well have a mixture of group 5 and
> > 6, although with the relative dearth of group 5 vamps, the group 6's
> > would be pretty crippled by crypt selection...
>
> Is the plan to treat the even-numbered groups as the main ones, making
> the odd-numbered ones the auxiliaries? How many groups can there be
> before new players write off the old ones (as I have done with group
> 3)?
>
Well, I don't know any more than you, but I think group 3 was so small
(for non-Camarilla clans, at least) simply because group 2 was so
huge. Group 4 is large as well, but it also contains the Laibon
clans. I don't think that group 5 will be an "auxilliary" group, I
just think that we will see group 6's start to encroach in sets that
also have group 5's. Remember that we had group 5's for a lot of
clans before group 4 was even close to fleshed out for the Cam. And
there have been several sets now with mixed 4 & 5. IMHO, we'll have a
set with just (or mostly) 5's, and then we'll see a string of sets
with mixed 5 & 6.

One counterindication of group 5 being structured similarly to group 3
is that the independent clans already have a pretty good
representation in group 5. Group 3 was a complete waste for them, and
I really thought that considering how *bad* a lot of the group 2
Indy's were that they could have gotten a few more in Group 3 to even
things out without overpowering 2/3 decks. (If you want a list, we
can start with Dedefra, Vittorio and Patrizia Giovanni, Andrei Puxon,
and most of the large vampires from DS/AH in those clans...) As it
is, playing group 3/4 with Indy clans is almost pointless and you
rarely see it. But since group 5 is pretty well fleshed out, we
should expect to see plenty of 4/5 and 5/6 decks for them, once group
6 is printed.

On Jan 3, 9:06 pm, Chris Berger <ark... DeleteThis @ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
 (If you want a list, we can start with Dedefra....

Dedefra is a long, long way from bad. SER on a 5 cap: joint cheapest
SER in group 2/3.

She is entirely playable. However, Aisha at 6 cap with her PRE ser aus
ani and crazy unsupported incongruous special is another matter
entirely.


GreenO

Baaliprimogen wrote:
> Is there any date on the next one? I'm so hungry for more right now...
> Any Ideas on what kind of expansion it will be?

Dunno. But a theme I'd like to see explored is allies, particularly
ghouls, as vampiric agents pursuing offensive and defensive vampire
strategies in the daylight realm, together with some development of
the theme of vampiric daylight vulnerability.

On Jan 4, 12:09 am, "Kevin M." <youw... DeleteThis @imaspammer.org> wrote:
>
> Probably a bit more fair to split them up like this:
> Group 1/2: 507
> Group 2/3: 627
> Group 3/4: 640
> Group 4/5: 548
>
> Which leans more towards ~100 Group5 vampires due during or before Group6
> begins.

Wow, great statistic work. So in a mini expansion there would be 20
new Vamps. And if there is a new bloodline set, they probably add 1
more group 5 vampire for each clan (like they did in LoB). That would
be about 30. Then there will be only 70 vamps left. And WW don't just
cut a group off like that. So I guess we would probably see group 6 in
November (or whenever the second next set is released).

On Jan 3, 4:38 pm, GreenO <mgree... DeleteThis @googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 9:06 pm, Chris Berger <ark... DeleteThis @ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>  (If you want a list, we can start with Dedefra....
>
> Dedefra is a long, long way from bad. SER on a 5 cap: joint cheapest
> SER in group 2/3.
>
That's the biggest reason she pisses me off. Plenty of disciplines
have a 3 cap with superior. Even a few with a 2-cap with a flaw.
Serpentis can't even have a 4 cap. And in group 2, you have to deal
with Dedefra who gets necromancy instead of presence. Playing
Settites before G3 came out was just so frustrating because you
couldn't get a reasonable number of in-clan disciplines on your
vampires. And then G3 came out and added only 2 vampires, and one of
them is a 9-cap. You ended up getting more mileage out of Settites by
just ignoring ser and going obf/pre.

Dedefra may have had her uses as the smallest vampire with SER, but
only 3 points of useful disciplines on a 5-cap with a special ability
that doesn't help in Settite decks is weak. If you built a deck
around using her nec (Mummies, I assume), then sure. But as a
generally useful clan-member? Terrible.

And don't even get me started on how the only 5 cap with SER and
another superior happens to be a Gangrel... And how Ezekiel was
finally a midcap with a decent array of disciplines, and he's group 3,
which doesn't play well with other groupings. Even for a G2 Settite
deck, I give only like a 50/50 chance that it's worth including
Ezekiel instead of some G1 weenies.

Aisha, I actually kind of like - but like Dedefra, only for certain
decks (actually, I don't like Dedefra even in that deck, because I'd
rather use Halim Bey for mummies). Aisha + Allonzo Montoya + Nadima +
Sir Marriot is a pretty good base of aus+ser, with ani and/or obf if
you want it, and 2 vamps with built in intercept. Through in Makarios
and Sarrasine if you really want to use Presence (presumably for
Enchanting down?). Even in a toolboxy Settite deck, Aisha's intercept
can come in handy to block +1 stealth actions from non-scary
minions... it's not hugely useful, but it's helped me before.
Dedefra's +1 strength vs. Cam... pretty much never. I also hate
Hadrian Garrick for the same reason, although I know that I'm in the
minority on that one, because obf/pre on a 4 cap isn't all that bad.

On Jan 3, 5:54 pm, James Coupe <ja....TakeThisOut@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
> I imagine there's at least a partial element of Group 3 vampires being
> thinner on the ground if you're buying from a shop or any recent
> expansions.

Well, I suppose, but isn't Blood Shadowed Court (the box of 100xG3
vampires for 10 bucks) still reasonably available? Yeah--just found it
readily available and pretty cheap. But I suppose if you don't have
it, then G3 would seem kind of a write off.

-Peter

In article
<1f6eccba-a05b-4cc3-ac23-6a6a0989e42e.RemoveThis@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
brandonsantacruz.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> How many groups can there be
> before new players write off the old ones (as I have done with group
> 3)?

Why would you write off Group 3? I mean, yeah, I suppose if you just got
into the game and have no G2 vampires, then G3 might seem sub-optimal,
but even then, there are plenty of G4 vampires (all of 3rd and half of
KoT) around to make the G3 vampires useful.

Assuming that groups continue to work as they seem to have been working
(i.e. each grouping has a different flavor to them and new groups don't
wallpaper old groups, which has been the case since CE; see: G3
Nosferatu and Fortitude vs G4 Nosferatu and Auspex), there is no reason
to ever write off groups. They are just likely to be useful for
different stuff. Even now, G1/2 is *still* best for building a weenine
mono potence deck, for example. Am I misunderstanding you?

Peter D Bakija
pdb6.RemoveThis@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff

On Jan 3, 4:15 pm, Peter D Bakija <p....RemoveThis@lightlink.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:54 pm, James Coupe <ja....RemoveThis@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I imagine there's at least a partial element of Group 3 vampires being
> > thinner on the ground if you're buying from a shop or any recent
> > expansions.
>
> Well, I suppose, but isn't Blood Shadowed Court (the box of 100xG3
> vampires for 10 bucks) still reasonably available? Yeah--just found it
> readily available and pretty cheap. But I suppose if you don't have
> it, then G3 would seem kind of a write off.
>
> -Peter

I started playing when LotN was close to coming out, so Uncle George
is about the only group 3 vampire I own. Rather than going back and
buying old sets, which can be difficult and may require more money
than I'd care to spend, I'll fill out my group 4/5 crypts, playing the
occasional group 1 or 1/2 deck. I got most of the group 1 vampires
from one old box of Jyhad and won two cheap auctions for full sets of
Jyhad vampires on ebay. Buying BSC would give me many of the vampires
I'm missing for group 3, but that's $40+ tax I'd rather spend on the
library cards to make my group 4/5 decks work. Don't get me wrong, I
like your idea, I just think it will be better for me to forget group
3 ever existed (except when playing against it).

Brandon

Peter D Bakija <pdb6 DeleteThis @lightlink.com> wrote:
>In article
><1f6eccba-a05b-4cc3-ac23-6a6a0989e42e DeleteThis @v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> brandonsantacruz DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>> How many groups can there be
>> before new players write off the old ones (as I have done with group
>> 3)?
>
>Why would you write off Group 3? I mean, yeah, I suppose if you just got
>into the game and have no G2 vampires, then G3 might seem sub-optimal,
>but even then, there are plenty of G4 vampires (all of 3rd and half of
>KoT) around to make the G3 vampires useful.

I imagine there's at least a partial element of Group 3 vampires being
thinner on the ground if you're buying from a shop or any recent
expansions.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

In article
<41cffa1a-22f6-43a4-b34a-68cee92eb2ac.DeleteThis@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
brandonsantacruz.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> I started playing when LotN was close to coming out, so Uncle George
> is about the only group 3 vampire I own.

Oh, ok. That makes sense. I thought you were saying that G3 vampires
were useless or not worth playing or something (i.e. I read "I wrote off
G3 vampires" as "I stopped using G3 vampires") as opposed to them just
being something that people don't have.

Yeah, if you don't *have* G3 vampires, then they aren't something you
are going to be using, true.

> Buying BSC would give me many of the vampires
> I'm missing for group 3, but that's $40+ tax I'd rather spend on the
> library cards to make my group 4/5 decks work.

For what it is worth, I just saw decks of Blood Shadowed Court for 7
bucks. But then, if you aren't in the US, the shipping alone makes that
much more expensive.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6.DeleteThis@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff