Eternal Mask, The question

Oortje wrote:
> It is probebly asked before, but it never hurts to to ask and I cant
> seem to find the awnser very easy...
>
> ------------------------
> Eternal Mask, The
> Type: Action
> Requires: Serpentis
> Cost: 1 blood
> +1 stealth action.
> [ser] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.
> [SER] Put this card on this vampire and move a unique vampire from any
> ash heap to your ready region with any amount of blood from this
> acting vampire. The minion with this card cannot take actions, block,
> play reaction cards or vote. You may burn this card and the chosen
> vampire during any untap phase.
> ----------------
>
>
> Can "this vampire" burn the mask if the targeted vampire is not in
> play anymore?

No, by the rules on targeting (no target = no use).

> What happens to the target vampire if "this vampire" leaves play?
> nothing?

Correct.

On Nov 6, 8:52 am, eRol <errikos.oenguen_nospam_ RemoveThis @_nospam_web.de>
wrote:
> Oortje wrote:
> > Thanks.
>
> > This card keeps shouting PowerPlay, but Im not sure why.
>
> > what if...
> > Vampire A plays the Mask and this puts into play vampire B
> > Vampire B plays the Mask and puts into play vampire C
> > Vampire A burns the Mask and Vampire B as by card text.
> > Leaves Vampire C in play and no masks.
>
> > Good luck to all you creative deck builders!!!
> > Oortje
>
> Eternal Mask, The
> +1 stealth action.[ser] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.[SER] Put this card on
> this vampire and move a unique vampire from any ash heap to your ready
> region with any amount of blood from this acting vampire. The minion
> with this card cannot take actions, block, play reaction cards or vote.
> You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap phase.
>
> I dont see how Vampire B can put a Mask in play, since he is not allowed
> to act -> cardtext.
>
> eRol

Vampire A uses Eternal Mask to bring out Vampire B. A cannot act, B
can.
Vampire B uses another Eternal Mask to bring out Vampire C. A and B
cannot act, C can.
Vampire A uses the card text of its Eternal Mask to burn the card and
Vampire B. Cards on Vampire B burn when it does. Vampires A and C can
now act freely.

The confusion is upon which vampire the Eternal Mask goes upon, which
is the acting vampire, not the one being put into play.

How effective the strategy is, is up for debate. You tie up your
minions for a couple of turns before you're really ready to make use
of your extra vampire, which takes you two to three turns to get (turn
1 to get B, turn 2 to get C or same turn if you have another Mask at
that point, next turn to burn A's Mask).

Still, could make for a fun deck, if you have a reliable way to put
the vampires you want to Mask in your ash heap.

Chris, Thrall of Arika

On Nov 6, 12:59 pm, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack....TakeThisOut@amec.com>
wrote:
> How effective the strategy is, is up for debate. You tie up your
> minions for a couple of turns before you're really ready to make use
> of your extra vampire, which takes you two to three turns to get (turn
> 1 to get B, turn 2 to get C or same turn if you have another Mask at
> that point, next turn to burn A's Mask).

The really nice thing about trying this is that if you pack a bunch of
extra Eternal Masks to make sure you have a pair to get the combo in
one turn, you aren't really losing out... even if the combo never
happens. The +1 bleed at +1 stealth that the inferior version gives
you is an incredible backup plan (and makes it a great card of
opportunity for the Setites in non-trick decks).

> Still, could make for a fun deck, if you have a reliable way to put
> the vampires you want to Mask in your ash heap.

Standard ways that necromancers have used for Possession should work
here too... namely, Goodnight Sweet Prince or Might of the Camarilla.

Brent Ross

In message <fgq64v$vo5$1@schlund.de>, eRol <errikos.oenguen_nospam_@_nos
pam_web.de> writes:
>Eternal Mask, The
>+1 stealth action.[ser] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.[SER] Put this card on
>this vampire and move a unique vampire from any ash heap to your ready
>region with any amount of blood from this acting vampire. The minion
>with this card cannot take actions, block, play reaction cards or vote.
>You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap phase.
>
>I dont see how Vampire B can put a Mask in play, since he is not
>allowed to act -> cardtext.

When Vampire A plays Mask, the Mask goes on Vampire A ("this vampire").
The retrieved vampire (B) is free to act, unless there are some other
restrictions.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Oortje wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> This card keeps shouting PowerPlay, but Im not sure why.
>
> what if...
> Vampire A plays the Mask and this puts into play vampire B
> Vampire B plays the Mask and puts into play vampire C
> Vampire A burns the Mask and Vampire B as by card text.
> Leaves Vampire C in play and no masks.
>
>
> Good luck to all you creative deck builders!!!
> Oortje
>
Eternal Mask, The
+1 stealth action.[ser] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.[SER] Put this card on
this vampire and move a unique vampire from any ash heap to your ready
region with any amount of blood from this acting vampire. The minion
with this card cannot take actions, block, play reaction cards or vote.
You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap phase.

I dont see how Vampire B can put a Mask in play, since he is not allowed
to act -> cardtext.

eRol

On Nov 6, 5:14 pm, bwross <bwr....DeleteThis@mail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 12:59 pm, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack....DeleteThis@amec.com>
> wrote:
>
> > How effective the strategy is, is up for debate. You tie up your
> > minions for a couple of turns before you're really ready to make use
> > of your extra vampire, which takes you two to three turns to get (turn
> > 1 to get B, turn 2 to get C or same turn if you have another Mask at
> > that point, next turn to burn A's Mask).
>
> The really nice thing about trying this is that if you pack a bunch of
> extra Eternal Masks to make sure you have a pair to get the combo in
> one turn, you aren't really losing out... even if the combo never
> happens. The +1 bleed at +1 stealth that the inferior version gives
> you is an incredible backup plan (and makes it a great card of
> opportunity for the Setites in non-trick decks).

Well yes, though the discussion was in regards to using the superior
ability of Eternal Mask. It's not as if the Setites are lacking in
stealth and bleed abilities.

> > Still, could make for a fun deck, if you have a reliable way to put
> > the vampires you want to Mask in your ash heap.
>
> Standard ways that necromancers have used for Possession should work
> here too... namely, Goodnight Sweet Prince or Might of the Camarilla.
>
> Brent Ross

Sorry, forgive my ignorance, but playing with Ravnos or Camarilla
Justicars/Inner Circle made for effective Possession decks? Not in
terms in costs, but in being an overall effective deck. To shift it to
using Eternal Mask, you'd likely use these methods twice to pull off
one combo, likely slowing things down even more.

Though merging Kemintiri will certainly make better use of Might of
the Camarilla. That would probably be the way to go for an Eternal
Mask deck. Though that being said, you'd likely have to use your own
vampire for Vampire B (for superior serpentis), and there's little
guarantee that any of your opponents' vampires will be of much use to
you.

But then that's the challenge Oortje laid before us, to find an
effective way to pull of the trick.

Chris, Thrall of Arika

James Coupe wrote:
> In message <fgq64v$vo5$1@schlund.de>, eRol <errikos.oenguen_nospam_@_nos
> pam_web.de> writes:
>> Eternal Mask, The
>> +1 stealth action.[ser] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.[SER] Put this card on
>> this vampire and move a unique vampire from any ash heap to your ready
>> region with any amount of blood from this acting vampire. The minion
>> with this card cannot take actions, block, play reaction cards or vote.
>> You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap phase.
>>
>> I dont see how Vampire B can put a Mask in play, since he is not
>> allowed to act -> cardtext.
>
> When Vampire A plays Mask, the Mask goes on Vampire A ("this vampire").
> The retrieved vampire (B) is free to act, unless there are some other
> restrictions.
>
Had to read the card thrice and not be confused after that. But thanks
James for the clarification.

still little confused
eRol

Sorry for digging out this long dead thread.
Just wanted to clarify one thing (which LSJ probably indirectly answered with his first post already?):
So burning the Eternal Mask on the vampire that used it (with or without burning the vampire holding it) does NOT actually burn the second vampire that was regained from ash heap?

So trickeries like:
a) using Heidelberg and Martinelli's Ring to burn the mask and to use both vampires as if nothing happened

b) using Cleansing Ritual to do the same as a)

c) use Golconda or Khobar Towers to gain pool from vampire A while the vamp from ash heap stays in play

are perfectly legal?

To me from a logical point of view it seemed that as soon as I somehow remove the mask, the second vampire would be burned. But I'd be happy if that view is actually wrong.

Cheers,
Lavron