Digital channel "recording", other stuff

Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI RemoveThis @DONTearthlinkLIKE.netSPAM> shaped the electrons to say:
>The recording quality setting indicates that it has no effect for digital
>channels. Does this mean the TiVo just streams the already-compressed data to
>the hard drive?

Yes.

>Furthermore, how on earth do you find out how much free space there is? It
>doesn't even show up on any of the diagnostic screens.

You don't, TiVo just doesn't include a Free Space Indicator (FSI).
Most people just let it record TiVo Suggestions and those, along with
anyhting in the Recently Deleted folder, provide a coarse indicator.

>recording between now and then. Adding up the size of programs already there
>and to be recorded between now and then, I come up with only about 107GB,
>while the unit has a 250GB drive.

1. Keep in mind that's 250GB in base10 Bytes and unformated, the
capacities on the TiVo are base2, and the formated drive loses some
raw capacity. Plus some of the drive is used for the OS, swap,
etc. So you don't have even close to 250GB for recordings, really.

2. The TiVo uses worst case scenario to do those calculations - max
possible bitrate.

-MZ
--
megazone-at-megazone.org http://www.MegaZone.org/ Gweep, Geek, Human, me.
http://www.GizmoLovers.com/ http://www.Eyrie-Productions.com/ -><- Hail Eris
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171

"MegaZone" <newsREMOVE RemoveThis @THISmegazone.org> wrote in message
news:1216544231.331305@sidehack.gweep.net...
> Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI RemoveThis @DONTearthlinkLIKE.netSPAM> shaped the electrons
> to say:
>>The recording quality setting indicates that it has no effect for digital
>>channels. Does this mean the TiVo just streams the already-compressed
>>data to
>>the hard drive?
>
> Yes.
>
>>Furthermore, how on earth do you find out how much free space there is?
>>It
>>doesn't even show up on any of the diagnostic screens.
>
> You don't, TiVo just doesn't include a Free Space Indicator (FSI).
> Most people just let it record TiVo Suggestions and those, along with
> anyhting in the Recently Deleted folder, provide a coarse indicator.

They should. How hard can it be to insert it into the software. The POS SA
and moxi boxes have it.
>
>>recording between now and then. Adding up the size of programs already
>>there
>>and to be recorded between now and then, I come up with only about 107GB,
>>while the unit has a 250GB drive.
>
> 1. Keep in mind that's 250GB in base10 Bytes and unformated, the
> capacities on the TiVo are base2, and the formated drive loses some
> raw capacity. Plus some of the drive is used for the OS, swap,
> etc. So you don't have even close to 250GB for recordings, really.
>
> 2. The TiVo uses worst case scenario to do those calculations - max
> possible bitrate.
>
> -MZ
> --
> megazone-at-megazone.org http://www.MegaZone.org/ Gweep, Geek, Human,
> me.
> http://www.GizmoLovers.com/ http://www.Eyrie-Productions.com/ -><- Hail
> Eris
> "A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men"
> 508-852-2171

"Kevin Weaver" <kevinkeithweaver DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>"MegaZone" <newsREMOVE DeleteThis @THISmegazone.org> wrote in message
>news:1216544231.331305@sidehack.gweep.net...

>> You don't, TiVo just doesn't include a Free Space Indicator (FSI).
>> Most people just let it record TiVo Suggestions and those, along with
>> anyhting in the Recently Deleted folder, provide a coarse indicator.
>
>They should. How hard can it be to insert it into the software. The POS SA
>and moxi boxes have it.

So, how should it work? Show free megabytes? Show minutes remaining?
Considering the variable bitrate in compressed MPEG4, how do you convert
megabytes to minutes?

scott

scott.DeleteThis@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:PkMjk.15709$xZ.3329@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

> So, how should it work? Show free megabytes? Show minutes remaining?
> Considering the variable bitrate in compressed MPEG4, how do you
> convert megabytes to minutes?
>
> scott

Yes. Show free megabytes or, better yet, something to the effect of "you
are currently using X percent of the free space on the box." Not that
difficult, really. Doesn't have to be in the general public's face but it
could/should at least be buried down in there somewhere.

CF

//

CF wrote:
> scott.TakeThisOut@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
> news:PkMjk.15709$xZ.3329@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>> So, how should it work? Show free megabytes? Show minutes remaining?
>> Considering the variable bitrate in compressed MPEG4, how do you
>> convert megabytes to minutes?
>>
>> scott
>
> Yes. Show free megabytes or, better yet, something to the effect of "you
> are currently using X percent of the free space on the box." Not that
> difficult, really. Doesn't have to be in the general public's face but it
> could/should at least be buried down in there somewhere.
>
> CF
>
> //
>
>

Should programs eligible for deletion to make room for new recordings
be included in the "free" space calculation? Is that space in use?

The amount of space needed to store 30 minutes of program is unknown
before that space is used to store the program.

Unless the disk is full with "save until I delete" recordings, there
will always be some free space.

On 2008-07-31, jack ak <akjack DeleteThis @excite.com> wrote:
> CF wrote:
>> scott DeleteThis @slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>> news:PkMjk.15709$xZ.3329@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:
>>
>>> So, how should it work? Show free megabytes? Show minutes remaining?
>>> Considering the variable bitrate in compressed MPEG4, how do you
>>> convert megabytes to minutes?
>>>
>>> scott
>>
>> Yes. Show free megabytes or, better yet, something to the effect of "you
>> are currently using X percent of the free space on the box." Not that
>> difficult, really. Doesn't have to be in the general public's face but it
>> could/should at least be buried down in there somewhere.
>>
>> CF
>>
>> //
>>
>>
>
> Should programs eligible for deletion to make room for new recordings
> be included in the "free" space calculation? Is that space in use?

Why bother? Just separate out the two...

X free, X available for potential deletes.

That will give the user some indication...

a) that some stuff the have been procastinating on may soon disappear.
b) they are being too much of a packrat and need to clean house.

It might also be useful to indicate to the user how fast you are
churning through disk space (like average gigs per day).

>
> The amount of space needed to store 30 minutes of program is unknown
> before that space is used to store the program.
>
> Unless the disk is full with "save until I delete" recordings, there
> will always be some free space.
>


--

Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good. |||
/ | \

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JEDIDIAH wrote:
....
> Why bother? Just separate out the two...
>
> X free, X available for potential deletes.
>
> That will give the user some indication...
>
> a) that some stuff the have been procastinating on may soon disappear.
> b) they are being too much of a packrat and need to clean house.
>
> It might also be useful to indicate to the user how fast you are
> churning through disk space (like average gigs per day).
>

Who cares? It doesn't matter since the TiVo manages disk usage.

All not "save until I delete" programs are eligible for deletion.

If you are concerned with "churning through disk space" unplug the DVR.

On 2008-07-31, jack ak <akjack RemoveThis @excite.com> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
> ...
>> Why bother? Just separate out the two...
>>
>> X free, X available for potential deletes.
>>
>> That will give the user some indication...
>>
>> a) that some stuff the have been procastinating on may soon disappear.
>> b) they are being too much of a packrat and need to clean house.
>>
>> It might also be useful to indicate to the user how fast you are
>> churning through disk space (like average gigs per day).
>>
>
> Who cares? It doesn't matter since the TiVo manages disk usage.
>
> All not "save until I delete" programs are eligible for deletion.
>
> If you are concerned with "churning through disk space" unplug the DVR.

Well, obviously a real world Tivo user has come upon this sort of problem.

Perhaps it's time for him consider something that can be more easily expanded.

If no one cared about how many hours their DVR had, then Tivo wouldn't make it
one of selling points.

--

Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good. |||
/ | \

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JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2008-07-31, jack ak <akjack DeleteThis @excite.com> wrote:
>> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> ...
>>> Why bother? Just separate out the two...
>>>
>>> X free, X available for potential deletes.
>>>
>>> That will give the user some indication...
>>>
>>> a) that some stuff the have been procastinating on may soon
>>> disappear. b) they are being too much of a packrat and need to
>>> clean house.
>>>
>>> It might also be useful to indicate to the user how fast you
>>> are churning through disk space (like average gigs per day).
>>>
>>
>> Who cares? It doesn't matter since the TiVo manages disk usage.
>>
>> All not "save until I delete" programs are eligible for deletion.
>>
>> If you are concerned with "churning through disk space" unplug the
>> DVR.
>
> Well, obviously a real world Tivo user has come upon this sort of
> problem.
>
> Perhaps it's time for him consider something that can be more easily
> expanded.
>
> If no one cared about how many hours their DVR had, then Tivo
> wouldn't make it one of selling points.

Seems they promte it as recording time, not long term packrat stogage of old
stuff time......

As an aside, I have the desktop software, transfer stuff to my pc via
network, and have several Terabyte USB drives on my puter, much cheaper to
store stuff on those instead of the tivo....

On 2008-07-31, Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM DeleteThis @MarcAlanNOSPAM.info> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> On 2008-07-31, jack ak <akjack DeleteThis @excite.com> wrote:
>>> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Why bother? Just separate out the two...
>>>>
>>>> X free, X available for potential deletes.
>>>>
>>>> That will give the user some indication...
>>>>
>>>> a) that some stuff the have been procastinating on may soon
>>>> disappear. b) they are being too much of a packrat and need to
>>>> clean house.
>>>>
>>>> It might also be useful to indicate to the user how fast you
>>>> are churning through disk space (like average gigs per day).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who cares? It doesn't matter since the TiVo manages disk usage.
>>>
>>> All not "save until I delete" programs are eligible for deletion.
>>>
>>> If you are concerned with "churning through disk space" unplug the
>>> DVR.
>>
>> Well, obviously a real world Tivo user has come upon this sort of
>> problem.
>>
>> Perhaps it's time for him consider something that can be more easily
>> expanded.
>>
>> If no one cared about how many hours their DVR had, then Tivo
>> wouldn't make it one of selling points.

TV on your schedule rather than the broadcasters.

>
> Seems they promte it as recording time, not long term packrat stogage of old
> stuff time......
>
> As an aside, I have the desktop software, transfer stuff to my pc via
> network, and have several Terabyte USB drives on my puter, much cheaper to
> store stuff on those instead of the tivo....

....also a lot less convenient.

An S1 with a weaknees upgrade can ruin you for "stock" Tivos for life.

--
Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.

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"Scott Lurndal" <scott.DeleteThis@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message
news:PkMjk.15709$xZ.3329@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "Kevin Weaver" <kevinkeithweaver.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>"MegaZone" <newsREMOVE.DeleteThis@THISmegazone.org> wrote in message
>>news:1216544231.331305@sidehack.gweep.net...
>
>>> You don't, TiVo just doesn't include a Free Space Indicator (FSI).
>>> Most people just let it record TiVo Suggestions and those, along with
>>> anyhting in the Recently Deleted folder, provide a coarse indicator.
>>
>>They should. How hard can it be to insert it into the software. The POS SA
>>and moxi boxes have it.
>
> So, how should it work? Show free megabytes? Show minutes remaining?
> Considering the variable bitrate in compressed MPEG4, how do you convert
> megabytes to minutes?
>
> scott

It should show time left. The moxi and SA boxes show it.

"jack ak" <akjack RemoveThis @excite.com> wrote in message
news:dXlkk.34417$ZE5.22770@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
> ...
>> Why bother? Just separate out the two...
>> X free, X available for potential deletes.
>>
>> That will give the user some indication...
>> a) that some stuff the have been procastinating on may soon disappear.
>> b) they are being too much of a packrat and need to clean house.
>>
>> It might also be useful to indicate to the user how fast you are
>> churning through disk space (like average gigs per day).
>>
>
> Who cares? It doesn't matter since the TiVo manages disk usage.
>
> All not "save until I delete" programs are eligible for deletion.
>
> If you are concerned with "churning through disk space" unplug the DVR.

Yeah, That helps.