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Since: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration?
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>misc (more info?)
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Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.1.2 (crawl-ref) character
file.
wim the Stabber
Race : High Elf Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : .
Class : Crusader Res.Cold : . . . Warding : +
Worship : Zin Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .
Level : 7 Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : .
Exp : 1060 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : .
Next Level : 1514
Exp Needed : 454 Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : .
Spls.Left : 0 Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: .
Gold : 315 Res.Slow : . Levitation : .
Clarity : . Ctrl.Flight: .
HP : 26/42
MP : 13/15
Str : 11 Weapon : +1,+0 short sword (flame)
Int : 17 Armour : +0 elf robe
Dex : 16 Shield :
AC : 4 Helmet : +0 helmet
Evasion : 11 Cloak :
Shield : 0 Gloves : +0 pair of gloves
Boots :
Play time : 01:10:16 Amulet : amulet of warding
Turns : 9304 Ring :
Ring :
I've managed to get past the start with an High Elf crusader. I've
started to worship Zin, because it seems appropriate for a crusader.
Not far past the temple I get poisoned by a scorpion.
Not wishing to waste Any healing potions I slip back into the robe
I just exchanged for a ring mail (going for combined armour/dodging)
and learn and cast regeneration, and then Zin gets angry because it's
a Necromancy spell! I'm going back to the temple and worship Okawaru.
You are on level 7.
You worship Zin.
Zin is demanding penance.
You are not hungry.
Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +0 elven short sword
g - an uncursed runed spear of reaching
p - a +1,+2 short sword
s - an uncursed short sword
x - an uncursed knife
H - a +1,+0 short sword
L - a +1,+0 short sword of flaming (weapon)
Missiles
e - 18 stones
k - 11 poisoned orcish needles
E - 22 curare-tipped orcish needles
I - 3 poisoned needles
Armour
b - a +0 elven robe (worn)
f - a leather armour
l - a +1 leather armour
n - a +0 ring mail
q - a +1 orcish scale mail
B - a +0 helmet (worn)
F - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
M - a +2 robe
Magical devices
d - a wand of frost
D - a wand of paralysis
K - a wand of polymorph other
O - a bone wand
P - a wand of confusion
Comestibles
t - 4 meat rations
w - 3 bread rations
S - a banana
T - a choko
Scrolls
i - a scroll of detect curse
r - 5 scrolls of identify
u - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I
C - 6 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
z - an uncursed amulet of warding (around neck)
Potions
m - a potion of speed
y - 2 potions of invisibility
G - 3 potions of healing
R - a potion of restore abilities
Books
c - a book of War Chants
You have 5 experience left.
Skills:
+ Level 3 Fighting
+ Level 7 Short Blades
- Level 1 Ranged Combat
+ Level 1 Armour
+ Level 3 Dodging
+ Level 2 Stealth
+ Level 3 Spellcasting
+ Level 5 Enchantments
- Level 2 Fire Magic
You cannot memorise any spells.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Success
Level
a - Fire Brand Fire/Enchantment Very Good 2
b - Berserker Rage Enchantment Very Good 3
c - Freezing Aura Ice/Enchantment Very Good 2
d - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Very Good 2
e - Regeneration Enchantment/Necromancy Good 3
Why is this a necromancy spell?
--
Wim Benthem |
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Since: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Wim Benthem wrote:
// Why is this a necromancy spell?
Because necromancy is the school of magic in Crawl that deals with
life, unlife, and death (ie the movement and channeling of lifeforce).
There's no other school in magic which covers the area of healing
(other sources are divine (the old "holy" spell school)... wands of
healing are an exception, they've been left but it has been debated
about whether they should properly remain). Enchantments is there
because it works as a duration (as compared to the instant heal of
Revivification), Necromancy because that's how you get the creepy,
unnatural healing.
Brent |
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External
Since: Feb 10, 2008
Posts: 296
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Wim Benthem <wbenthem.DeleteThis@wxs.nl> roared:
> Subject: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration?
Perhaps because the spell needs Enchantment and Necromancy.
> Race : High Elf Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : .
> Class : Crusader Res.Cold : . . . Warding : +
> Worship : Zin Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .
> Level : 7 Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : .
> Exp : 1060 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : .
> Next Level : 1514
> Exp Needed : 454 Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : .
> Spls.Left : 0 Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: .
> Gold : 315 Res.Slow : . Levitation : .
> Clarity : . Ctrl.Flight: .
Btw. Sustenance and regeneration isn't listed there ^.
> I've managed to get past the start with an High Elf crusader. I've
> started to worship Zin, because it seems appropriate for a crusader.
> Not far past the temple I get poisoned by a scorpion.
> Not wishing to waste Any healing potions I slip back into the robe
> I just exchanged for a ring mail (going for combined armour/dodging)
> and learn and cast regeneration, and then Zin gets angry because it's
> a Necromancy spell! I'm going back to the temple and worship Okawaru.
So where's the surprise? All it needs is a look at the spell in the
book, or the list of your spells.
Reading the subject line, I thought you had used a ring, where it
wouldn't be obvious. (Now I wonder whether Zin does object to the ring,
or the property in artifacts.)
> e - Regeneration Enchantment/Necromancy Good 3
> Why is this a necromancy spell?
No idea. Perhaps because it has to do with unduly creating life. (Making
yours bigger, in this case.) It's not a plain outside force (like
potions of healing), but something you do yourself. <shrug>
There aren't any life-spells, are there? All you've got is gods,
potions, or wands. What you do yourself might be seen as naughty by the
more picky gods.
--
Tina the Augur - a High Priest of the Remotely Noxious Glimmer |
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Since: May 25, 2005
Posts: 1492
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"bwross" <bwross.DeleteThis@mail.com> wrote:
>Because necromancy is the school of magic in Crawl that deals with
>life, unlife, and death (ie the movement and channeling of lifeforce).
>There's no other school in magic which covers the area of healing
>(other sources are divine (the old "holy" spell school)... wands of
>healing are an exception, they've been left but it has been debated
>about whether they should properly remain).
Are rings of regeneration necromantic or divine?
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/dungeonbash/
\ / "the lights shine clear through the sodium haze the night draws near
\/ and the daylight fades" -- Sisters of Mercy, "Lights" |
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Since: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Martin Read wrote:
// Are rings of regeneration necromantic or divine?
Interesting question. Possibly either, neither, or both... probably
best to consider it neutral.
Some of the facts at hand:
- rings of regen work pretty much like Troll regeneration. Troll
regeneration is certainly natural and neutral. The necromantic spell
has a duration and is much more powerful... quite a bit unlike the ring
(which could have been designed to activate for the necromancy spell
instead... perhaps the ring is really a Troll spirit fetich bound by a
shaman?).
- things like this, wands of healing, and (especially) scrolls of
acquirement muddy the water on how so-called "magic items" are created.
Are they really all magic items, or can some of them be created via
divine rituals instead? There's not enough information to know... that
level of ritual or enchantment doesn't exist currently in the game.
- rings of regen can be used by the undead (in b26/SS), the necromantic
spell cannot be used by the regular undead (although the hungry dead
are currently in). In 4.1, the ring won't work with undead flesh or
nonliving forms.
- magic items aren't proper magic (Spellcasting) or divine
(Invocations)... they use Evocations (well it would apply if it was
required[1]). The creation of the item probably requires magic or
divine work... but the activation of items is a separate thing, and
even the gods tend to think so.
Brent
[1] Before Evocations these things typically were based on PC character
level... it's the generic catch-all "skill level" for things that don't
fit other skills (not much left in this category now... just a few
Abilities). |
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Since: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 526
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:46 am
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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bwross wrote:
> Martin Read wrote:
> // Are rings of regeneration necromantic or divine?
[...]
> - things like this, wands of healing, and (especially) scrolls of
> acquirement muddy the water on how so-called "magic items" are created.
> Are they really all magic items, or can some of them be created via
> divine rituals instead? There's not enough information to know... that
> level of ritual or enchantment doesn't exist currently in the game.
"Currently"? Holy balancing nightmare! That one can wait for a bit,
methinks... 
As to the broader topic, don't expect me to be interested much in
"fantasy-realism", just suspension of disbelief. But then, you know
that.
e. |
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Since: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:56 am
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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erisdiscordia wrote:
// As to the broader topic, don't expect me to be interested much in
// "fantasy-realism", just suspension of disbelief. But then, you know
// that.
But ludoarchaeology is such a fun parascientific discipline!
Especially in Crawl, where there's a whole unknown overworld outside
the dungeon to try and infer things about based on the things and
beings found in a single dungeon.
Brent |
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Since: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 526
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:46 am
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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bwross wrote:
> erisdiscordia wrote:
> // As to the broader topic, don't expect me to be interested much in
> // "fantasy-realism", just suspension of disbelief. But then, you know
> // that.
>
> But ludoarchaeology is such a fun parascientific discipline!
> Especially in Crawl, where there's a whole unknown overworld outside
> the dungeon to try and infer things about based on the things and
> beings found in a single dungeon.
I'm positive that you do have fun with it! (Heck, it's easy to see.)
The trouble is, I don't -- much -- [1] and I'd rather spend my brain
cells thinking about balancing, interesting choices, etc. etc. One
man's porridge another man's poison, and all that.
Of course that also means that seeing others' ludoarchaeologists'
treatises is actually a bonus for me if they at least mostly make sense
to me, as I can then plagiarize them and concentrate on what I love.
[1] I do remember a few tram rides where I thought a lot about the
story of the sludge elf I was using for some challenge game of the time
or another. Or maybe a sludge elf historian. Don't remember much
anymore.
What would really be weird to me is rationalizing the story of
Orthogonal Man (no manual diagonal movement) once I (or some other fool
inspired by these words) take him on.
Enough, enough, enough. |
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Since: Mar 10, 2006
Posts: 423
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:34 am
Post subject: Re: -Crawl S- YACD HeCr. Why does Zin dislike regeneration? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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erisdiscordia wrote:
> bwross wrote:
>> Martin Read wrote:
>> // Are rings of regeneration necromantic or divine?
>
> [...]
>> - things like this, wands of healing, and (especially) scrolls of
>> acquirement muddy the water on how so-called "magic items" are
>> created. Are they really all magic items, or can some of them be
>> created via divine rituals instead? There's not enough information
>> to know... that level of ritual or enchantment doesn't exist
>> currently in the game.
>
> "Currently"? Holy balancing nightmare! That one can wait for a bit,
> methinks...
OTOH, on a loosly related note, this could probably open a gate for an
old wish of mine: the introduction of druids and shamans in Crawl. Up to
now I wouldn't know how to model them in Crawl with its race-weighty
system, as both are definitely classes. "Divine rituals" could be the
way to go, perhaps with a new nature-bound deity exclusively for druids
and shamans, giving them some intrinsic, "race-like" abilities to
manipulate natural things like e.g. hiding behind or shooting through
trees or even let them grow to block a path.
But *that* I'm afraid, would be definitely a balancing nightmare! 
Don't take it as a feature request for now, just as something I'd like
to be considered and I'll come up with every once in a while...
--
Rubinstein |
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