Collectible Class Power Cards

Tetsubo wrote on [Thu, 01 Jan 2009 08:41:17 -0500]:
> Allen Wessels wrote:
>> In article <gjgvcm$t5d$2@news.motzarella.org>,
>> Tetsubo <tetsubo RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Which is why I would prefer that D&D were owned by a gaming company
>>>rather than a toy company. There is a difference and Hasbro doesn't care
>>>that there is.
>>
>>
>> You don't understand. Modern business grows through mergers and
>> aquisitions. They get a business, fire all the people who know about
>> the product and then they run that business into the ground assuming
>> they can manage and sell any product because they know "how business
>> works".
>
> I have yet to see this 'business model' work.
>
>>
>> Entertainment is particularly tricky in this regard. See also
>> Electronic Arts.
>>
>> The problem with another gaming company taking over D&D is that they
>> would have to reshape it into that companies idea of a good game and
>> you'd get fail there too.
>>
>> D&D was a mature product and to move forward as a product it was going
>> to have to change.
>>
>> - Allen
>
> OK, I can buy that line of thought. But why did it 'change' in a
> direction that took it away from being an RPG and towards a direction
> that turned it into a tactical miniatures game with a fantasy expansion
> pack tacked onto it? One that just happened to be *very* friendly to the
> collectable card market? Other gaming companies have shown that actual
> role-playing games can still make money.

Because they see that things like Heroclix and WoW are doing so well, or
were at the time of release of 3.0 and then 4.0, that they tried to tap
those markets.

Werebat wrote:
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
>> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>
>>> decalod85 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
>>>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
>>>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
>>>>> but they did it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
>>>> like that into his game.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anything like what? An additional character power from a non-PHB
>>> official source?
>>>
>>>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do paper magazines count as "book"? Do articles on the WotC site? Do
>>> PDF magazines from the WotC site?
>>
>>
>> Book: Hard or softcover (but not magazine) publication which I, the DM,
>> own and have decided contains material to be allowed into my campaign.
>
>
> Then you get some joker who downloads a .pdf of every book out there and
> "gifts" them to the DM, then insists that "since you own it now..."
>
> Trojan horses.
>
> - Ron ^*^
>

Or the GM says, "Thanks but no thanks." And you're right back at square
one.

Because personally, I wouldn't accept them as gifts.

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP

On Jan 1, 4:56 pm, Hadsil <forum....RemoveThis@netzero.com> wrote:
> On Jan 1, 2:25 am, decalod85 <decalo....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31 2008, 3:53 pm, Justin Alexander <jus....RemoveThis@thealexandrian.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > >http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>
> > > Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
> > > WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
> > > Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
> > > but they did it.
>
> > Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
> > like that into his game.
>
> > If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules.  End of story.
>
> Some DMs do allow a player to bring his own book.  The DM will read it
> beforehand, certainly, but the player brings it with him every game
> session.

Yeah, I came off a little harsh there. I want to be able to read it
and hold it in my hands. I don't have to own it, but it better show
up at the table (especially if there are spells from it in use in the
game). Oh yeah, also, you have to lend the book to others, so they
can use it.

I hate the idea of these cards. I can just see someone playing and
wanting a power, but not having the card, and the DM not allowing them
to have it unless they have the card. That is the DM in Hasbros
dreams and my nightmares.

On Jan 2, 12:59 am, Werebat <ranpoir... DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> >> decalod85 wrote:
> >>>>http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>
> >>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
> >>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
> >>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures....
> >>>> but they did it.
>
> >>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
> >>> like that into his game.
>
> >> Anything like what? An additional character power from a non-PHB
> >> official source?
>
> >>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>
> >> Do paper magazines count as "book"? Do articles on the WotC site? Do
> >> PDF magazines from the WotC site?
>
> > Book: Hard or softcover (but not magazine) publication which I, the DM,
> > own and have decided contains material to be allowed into my campaign.
>
> Then you get some joker who downloads a .pdf of every book out there and
> "gifts" them to the DM, then insists that "since you own it now..."
>
> Trojan horses.
>
>     - Ron   ^*^- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The solution is not to play with jerks, DM and player alike.

Gerald Katz

Werebat wrote on [Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:59:48 -0500]:
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>> decalod85 wrote:
>>>>> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
>>>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
>>>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
>>>>> but they did it.
>>>>
>>>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
>>>> like that into his game.
>>>
>>> Anything like what? An additional character power from a non-PHB
>>> official source?
>>>
>>>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>>>
>>> Do paper magazines count as "book"? Do articles on the WotC site? Do
>>> PDF magazines from the WotC site?
>>
>> Book: Hard or softcover (but not magazine) publication which I, the DM,
>> own and have decided contains material to be allowed into my campaign.
>
> Then you get some joker who downloads a .pdf of every book out there and
> "gifts" them to the DM, then insists that "since you own it now..."

The DM still has say as to whether stuff he owns makes it into the
game...

Werebat wrote:
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>> decalod85 wrote:
>>>>> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
>>>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
>>>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
>>>>> but they did it.
>>>>
>>>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
>>>> like that into his game.
>>>
>>> Anything like what? An additional character power from a non-PHB
>>> official source?
>>>
>>>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>>>
>>> Do paper magazines count as "book"? Do articles on the WotC site? Do
>>> PDF magazines from the WotC site?
>>
>> Book: Hard or softcover (but not magazine) publication which I, the DM,
>> own and have decided contains material to be allowed into my campaign.
>
> Then you get some joker who downloads a .pdf of every book out there and
> "gifts" them to the DM, then insists that "since you own it now..."

No, I don't. You missed the part that says "I, the DM, ... have decided
contains material to be allowed into my campaign".

A joker can download the pdf and "gift" it to me. But the .pdf (A)
isn't hardcover or softcover publication, and (B) doesn't force me to
accept it.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com

In article <gjp14o$80h$1@news.motzarella.org>,
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp RemoveThis @sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:

> No, I don't. You missed the part that says "I, the DM, ... have decided
> contains material to be allowed into my campaign".
>
> A joker can download the pdf and "gift" it to me. But the .pdf (A)
> isn't hardcover or softcover publication, and (B) doesn't force me to
> accept it.

And given the staff cuts, I'm guessing these power cards aren't
particularly well tested even relative to the relaxed testing that I
think went on with 4 development.

I suspect also going out the door was quite a bit of the concern for
game balance.

If the power is cool, it will sell minis.

- Allen

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>>> decalod85 wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
>>>>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
>>>>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
>>>>>> but they did it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
>>>>> like that into his game.
>>>>
>>>> Anything like what? An additional character power from a non-PHB
>>>> official source?
>>>>
>>>>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>>>>
>>>> Do paper magazines count as "book"? Do articles on the WotC site? Do
>>>> PDF magazines from the WotC site?
>>>
>>> Book: Hard or softcover (but not magazine) publication which I, the DM,
>>> own and have decided contains material to be allowed into my campaign.
>>
>> Then you get some joker who downloads a .pdf of every book out there
>> and "gifts" them to the DM, then insists that "since you own it now..."
>
> No, I don't. You missed the part that says "I, the DM, ... have decided
> contains material to be allowed into my campaign".
>
> A joker can download the pdf and "gift" it to me. But the .pdf (A) isn't
> hardcover or softcover publication, and (B) doesn't force me to accept it.

I'll grant you B but not A, unless you'd allow a magazine that someone
had bound.

- Ron ^*^

decalod85 wrote:
> On Jan 1, 4:56 pm, Hadsil<forum... RemoveThis @netzero.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 1, 2:25 am, decalod85<decalo... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 31 2008, 3:53 pm, Justin Alexander<jus... RemoveThis @thealexandrian.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
>>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
>>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
>>>> but they did it.
>>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
>>> like that into his game.
>>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>> Some DMs do allow a player to bring his own book. The DM will read it
>> beforehand, certainly, but the player brings it with him every game
>> session.
>
> Yeah, I came off a little harsh there. I want to be able to read it
> and hold it in my hands. I don't have to own it, but it better show
> up at the table (especially if there are spells from it in use in the
> game). Oh yeah, also, you have to lend the book to others, so they
> can use it.
>
> I hate the idea of these cards. I can just see someone playing and
> wanting a power, but not having the card, and the DM not allowing them
> to have it unless they have the card. That is the DM in Hasbros
> dreams and my nightmares.

Don't worry too much -- I think the vast majority of actual DMs will
fall into one of two categories:

1. They won't let any of the card powers into their game
2. They'll let any card power into their game, card owned or no (or at
least they'll consider it)

I'd put myself into the first subgroup if I were running 4E.

- Ron ^*^

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>>> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081023
>>>>
>>>> Wow. I never really took anyone seriously when they predicted that
>>>> WotC would start selling unique powers on individual cards.
>>>> Admittedly, these are being packed non-collectibly with miniatures...
>>>> but they did it.
>>>
>>> Funny thing is, I don't know a single DM that would ever let anything
>>> like that into his game.
>>
>> Anything like what? An additional character power from a non-PHB
>> official source?
>>
>>> If I don't have the book, you don't use the rules. End of story.
>>
>> Do paper magazines count as "book"? Do articles on the WotC site? Do
>> PDF magazines from the WotC site?
>
> Book: Hard or softcover (but not magazine) publication which I, the
> DM, own and have decided contains material to be allowed into my campaign.

By that definition, decalod85 would never allow any feat, spell or class
from Dragon or Dugeon, which sounds pretty silly to me.