3.5 - Campaigns with less armor

On Oct 7, 6:13 pm, Hadsil <forum....DeleteThis@netzero.com> wrote:
> On Oct 7, 6:00 pm, decalod85 <decalo....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It seems to me that campaigns that are based in the Renaissance (or
> > fantasy world equivalent) or are more based in a city (with city
> > adventures) may want to have less of the huge and heavy armor.  So
> > lets say there is no heavy or medium armor available in a given
> > campaign world.
>
> > Of course, getting rid of those armors is a serious penalty to
> > fighters, paladins, and clerics, especially at higher levels when they
> > are more able to obtain the really heavy stuff.  How do you protect
> > them?
>
> > Also there is the issue of the armor feats offered by the core
> > classes?  What could you offer in compensation?
>
> > What techniques have others used to mitigate this problem in their
> > campaigns?
>
> > Are there any supplements that deal with this issue directly?
>
> Use the Class Defense rules from Unearthed Arcana.  They're exactly
> what you're looking for.

I have the book, but never noticed that. It's exactly what I am
looking for.

Thank you very much.

In article <d6c2e89c-d499-4563-a291-b35815b0ba3e RemoveThis @s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, on
Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:00:41 -0700 (PDT) decalod85 RemoveThis @comcast.net (decalod85) wrote:

> Of course, getting rid of those armors is a serious penalty to
> fighters, paladins, and clerics, especially at higher levels when
> they
> are more able to obtain the really heavy stuff. How do you protect
> them?
The protection can be accomplished by protective magic items, and/or magic armour,
and allowing new (stackable?) armour feats for the lighter armour types.

And steel will be better, as will the armour design.


Cheers
JOanna

Alien mind control rays made decalod85 <decalod85 DeleteThis @comcast.net> write:
> Of course, getting rid of those armors is a serious penalty to
> fighters, paladins, and clerics, especially at higher levels when they
> are more able to obtain the really heavy stuff. How do you protect
> them?

it's never been an issue for me, none of my players ever choose medium
or heavy armor. in my entire group, i've played the only PC to wear
plate, and that was three or four campaigns ago.

seriously? it seems to work itself out fine, fighters and clerics will
just pick up the same bracers of armor, amulets of natural armor, and
rings of protection that are typical for the rogue's kit.

--
._n_______n_. drow DeleteThis @bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
| --------- |== -----------------------------------------------------------
I"/""|"|Z7""' Blam. Blam. "Stop." Blam. "Police." Blam.
lJ | | -- Officer Axly
|_l

On Oct 8, 6:11 am, Jasin Zujovic <jasin.zujo....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Harold Groot wrote:
> > That's pretty much how things are in our 9th level campaign as well.
> > Mobility is considered to be a VERY important factor in melee by our
> > players.  If memory serves we have one PC with movement of "only" 30,
> > three with 40, and two with 50 (and about half the battles are fought
> > while under a HASTE spell, so 60/70/70/70/80/80 in those battles).
>
> How are they all getting such high speeds?

He said they were 9th level characters, so I would guess a healthy
concentration of monks and barbarians, along with races that have a
base move of 30.

A 9th level monk gets +30 to speed when unarmored and with light
encumbrance.

Boots of Striding and Springing add 10 to speed (enhancement bonus)
and only cost 5,500 gp.

So, there are lots of ways that lightly encumbered characters can get
to 50 or even 60 at that level.

Keith Davies wrote:
>> What techniques have others used to mitigate this problem in their
>> campaigns?
>
> Hasn't been a problem, that way. I don't see many fighters or clerics
> choosing to use heavy armor, even with the RAW. If I were tell them
> that heavy armor was passe and wearing it will draw a lot of attention
> to the wearer, I'd just get blank looks and 'duh'.

I always find it strange when you mention this. I can perhaps see
fighters regularly avoiding heavy armour, but clerics and paladins?

Harold Groot wrote:
> That's pretty much how things are in our 9th level campaign as well.
> Mobility is considered to be a VERY important factor in melee by our
> players. If memory serves we have one PC with movement of "only" 30,
> three with 40, and two with 50 (and about half the battles are fought
> while under a HASTE spell, so 60/70/70/70/80/80 in those battles).

How are they all getting such high speeds?


--
Jasin

"Jasin Zujovic" <jasin.zujovic RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gci4hi$r9i$2@localhost.localdomain...
> Harold Groot wrote:
>> That's pretty much how things are in our 9th level campaign as well.
>> Mobility is considered to be a VERY important factor in melee by our
>> players. If memory serves we have one PC with movement of "only" 30,
>> three with 40, and two with 50 (and about half the battles are fought
>> while under a HASTE spell, so 60/70/70/70/80/80 in those battles).
>
> How are they all getting such high speeds?
>
Haste spell?

Glenn D.

"decalod85" <decalod85 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:d6c2e89c-d499-4563-a291-b35815b0ba3e@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> It seems to me that campaigns that are based in the Renaissance (or
> fantasy world equivalent) or are more based in a city (with city
> adventures) may want to have less of the huge and heavy armor. So
> lets say there is no heavy or medium armor available in a given
> campaign world.

>

A simple solution would be to give your fighters and paladins some kind of
alternate AC bonus, like maybe give a fighter a bonus of 1/4 his level round
down, to AC in light armor, raising it to 1/2 if using a shield.

Jasin Zujovic <jasin.zujovic RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Keith Davies wrote:
>>> What techniques have others used to mitigate this problem in their
>>> campaigns?
>>
>> Hasn't been a problem, that way. I don't see many fighters or clerics
>> choosing to use heavy armor, even with the RAW. If I were tell them
>> that heavy armor was passe and wearing it will draw a lot of attention
>> to the wearer, I'd just get blank looks and 'duh'.
>
> I always find it strange when you mention this. I can perhaps see
> fighters regularly avoiding heavy armour, but clerics and paladins?

Yes.

Even as a player, I was running an NPC paladin (cohort) in heavy armor
and found the same thing -- just wasn't worth the weight and speed hit.
My (cloistered) cleric in the same game didn't wear armor either, almost
always. There was *one* situation where she borrowed some and relied on
Divine Power to bring up her combat ability.

Really good at turning undead, though.

Another cleric I played stuck to light armor, priest of the god of the
sea. He wasn't going to wear *anything* that was going to pull him to
the bottom that he wasn't willing to jettison if he needed to. The
mobility gains also helped quite a bit while he was bodyguarding the
sorcerer -- being able to put himself between the sorcerer and whatever
he drew the attention of, quickly, was a very good thing.

Dolarn was one of the few PCs I played who ever wore heavy armor (a
barbarian who 'got religion' and was going to become a paladin of Kord).
Not a normal thing, he was the only one who actually used heavy armor in
the campaign.


Keith
--
Keith Davies You know you're working too much when you
keith.davies RemoveThis @kjdavies.org receive spam with
keith.davies RemoveThis @gmail.com "Subject: Erection issues resolved!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ and you go looking for the trouble ticket.

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:11:33 +0200, Jasin Zujovic
<jasin.zujovic.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

>Harold Groot wrote:
>> That's pretty much how things are in our 9th level campaign as well.
>> Mobility is considered to be a VERY important factor in melee by our
>> players. If memory serves we have one PC with movement of "only" 30,
>> three with 40, and two with 50 (and about half the battles are fought
>> while under a HASTE spell, so 60/70/70/70/80/80 in those battles).

>How are they all getting such high speeds?
>Jasin


Racial bonuses, class abilities and magic items. The usual.

The DM has a homebrew set of "Traits" where everyone officially starts
as a no-benefits-at-all human. You are then given Trait points to put
into your PC and you build the type of character you want. If you
want an elf-like human you could use your traits on the things elves
get (better dex, lowlight vision, etc.). If you want a dwarf-like
human instead you could get those abilities (stonecunning, darkvision,
etc.). If you want the standard D&D human you buy the extra feat and
skill points with the Trait points. You can also mix and match.
Taking the "Nomad" racial trait in this homebrew gives an extra 10" of
base movement and it stacks with class abilities like Barbarian and
Monk. The druid uses Wildshape to be a tiger most of the time.
Another has magic boots.

While the methods vary, the important thing is that almost everyone
WANTED the extra-fast movement and found a way to get it. If the
enemy runs away we can overtake them and finish them off. If we are
losing we can retreat and NOT be overtaken. If the matter is still
undecided we can help those who need it. We've got the movement to do
charges across the entire battlefield to help a teammate in trouble
(helped by the fact we took a Teamwork Benefit of Crowded Charge - PH2
p.159 - which lets you charge through a square occupied by another
team member). If an individual is in trouble, often a Withdraw can
get him beyond the range of a charge by the enemy he was facing. Or
my cleric can reach someone far away to pump a major Healing spell
into them.

With this group, taking movement penalties for medium or heavy armor
is NOT desired. The absence of such armors in this campaign would
barely be noticed.

On Oct 8, 9:53 pm, ren <ren1....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >A simple solution would be to give your fighters and paladins some kind of
> >alternate AC bonus, like maybe give a fighter a bonus of 1/4 his level round
> >down, to AC in light armor, raising it to 1/2 if using a shield.
>
> I like the idea of creating new 4th edition feats which increase the
> armor class, to hit ability, and the damage done by characters with
> less armor.
>
> Characters with heavy armor just kind of stand there and depend on
> their armor to protect them.
>
> Characters with light armor can "Dodge" better. So this ability to
> "Dodge" could be a feat that improves over time. A first level Rogue
> might just be able to do a cartwheel to dodge a blow. But by 5th
> level, he might be able to do a backflip and land in an even more
> advantageous position in order to strike back.
>
> So here are three new feats and how I think they should be implemented
> in the game.
>
> "Parry Strike" Available to first level fighters and rogues, the
> character who has this feat can duel with their weapon by knocking the
> opponent's weapon aside either to defend himself or strike the
> opponent. (ArmorClass+Character Level) (ToHit+Character Level)
> Disregard the 1/2 Character Level addition to Armor Class and To Hit.
>
> "Dodge Strike" Available to first level fighters and rogues, the
> character who is wearing "Light Armor" can use this feat to dodge a
> strike and this can also be added to the character's Parry strike
> score. (LightArmorClass+Character Level) For example, a 3rd level
> rogue with the Dodge Strike and Parry Strike Feat will have an
> ArmorClass of (Base:10 + Leather Armor:+2 + ParryStrikeFeat:+3 +
> DodgeStrike:+3 DexterityAbilityModifier:+4) Disregard the 1/2
> Character Level addition.
> The 3rd level Rogue's ArmorClass is 22.

What if you used Charisma as a second(or monk's third) AC Bonus?

Dragonkat

On Oct 9, 11:47 am, Jasin Zujovic <jasin.zujo... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> decalod85 wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 6:11 am, Jasin Zujovic <jasin.zujo... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Harold Groot wrote:
> >>> That's pretty much how things are in our 9th level campaign as well.
> >>> Mobility is considered to be a VERY important factor in melee by our
> >>> players.  If memory serves we have one PC with movement of "only" 30,
> >>> three with 40, and two with 50 (and about half the battles are fought
> >>> while under a HASTE spell, so 60/70/70/70/80/80 in those battles).
> >> How are they all getting such high speeds?
>
> > He said they were 9th level characters, so I would guess a healthy
> > concentration of monks and barbarians, along with races that have a
> > base move of 30.
>
> > A 9th level monk gets +30 to speed when unarmored and with light
> > encumbrance.
>
> > Boots of Striding and Springing add 10 to speed (enhancement bonus)
> > and only cost 5,500 gp.
>
> > So, there are lots of ways that lightly encumbered characters can get
> > to 50 or even 60 at that level.
>
> Monk speed, boots of striding and springing and haste are all
> enhancement, so neither of them stacks with any other.
>
> So put more precisely, my question was, how are they all getting such
> high speeds without enhancement bonuses (since haste boosts all of them
> by the full +30 ft.)?

Forgot about the boots and the spell stacking....

RAW, 70 is not out of the question (human barbarian with haste). Fast
Movement for the barbarian is an exception ability so it stacks with
haste. If a human bbn is wearing the boots, their normal move is 50,
which is pretty good. Harold mentioned in his post that the DM
allowed other chars to "buy" class and race attributes, so I guess a
lot of them bought the "Fast Movement".

80 is another matter. I am guessing the DM is letting the boots stack
with haste. An easy mistake to make... especially since I just made
it too...

>A simple solution would be to give your fighters and paladins some kind of
>alternate AC bonus, like maybe give a fighter a bonus of 1/4 his level round
>down, to AC in light armor, raising it to 1/2 if using a shield.

I like the idea of creating new 4th edition feats which increase the
armor class, to hit ability, and the damage done by characters with
less armor.

Characters with heavy armor just kind of stand there and depend on
their armor to protect them.

Characters with light armor can "Dodge" better. So this ability to
"Dodge" could be a feat that improves over time. A first level Rogue
might just be able to do a cartwheel to dodge a blow. But by 5th
level, he might be able to do a backflip and land in an even more
advantageous position in order to strike back.

So here are three new feats and how I think they should be implemented
in the game.

"Parry Strike" Available to first level fighters and rogues, the
character who has this feat can duel with their weapon by knocking the
opponent's weapon aside either to defend himself or strike the
opponent. (ArmorClass+Character Level) (ToHit+Character Level)
Disregard the 1/2 Character Level addition to Armor Class and To Hit.

"Dodge Strike" Available to first level fighters and rogues, the
character who is wearing "Light Armor" can use this feat to dodge a
strike and this can also be added to the character's Parry strike
score. (LightArmorClass+Character Level) For example, a 3rd level
rogue with the Dodge Strike and Parry Strike Feat will have an
ArmorClass of (Base:10 + Leather Armor:+2 + ParryStrikeFeat:+3 +
DodgeStrike:+3 DexterityAbilityModifier:+4) Disregard the 1/2
Character Level addition.
The 3rd level Rogue's ArmorClass is 22.