CNN: Sony's PS3 A Sinking Ship: Sales Plummet

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs DeleteThis @rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:KcKdnVreScL4Jt_UnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 AirRaid <airraidfighter DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> 1. It's the most expensive console on the market, $150 - $200 more
>> than its rivals. Even if you believe the video game industry is
>> "recession-proof" (it isn't), a tanking economy makes consumers more
>> price-conscious.
>
> So much for Sony's claim that "consumers like our prices".

PS3 clearly needs a holiday price drop. I dont know why Sony isnt doing it.
Maybe they'll drop it after the holidays.. i dont know.

I think we can all agree that a price drop is in order.

"Brenden D. Chase" <brenden.chaseREMOVETHIS.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:qdD0l.59$fv3.32@newsfe06.iad...
>
> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs.RemoveThis@rawbw.com> wrote in message
> news:KcKdnVreScL4Jt_UnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
>> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 AirRaid <airraidfighter.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 1. It's the most expensive console on the market, $150 - $200 more
>>> than its rivals. Even if you believe the video game industry is
>>> "recession-proof" (it isn't), a tanking economy makes consumers more
>>> price-conscious.
>>
>> So much for Sony's claim that "consumers like our prices".
>
> PS3 clearly needs a holiday price drop. I dont know why Sony isnt doing
> it.
> Maybe they'll drop it after the holidays.. i dont know.
>
> I think we can all agree that a price drop is in order.
>

Agreed and they need a blockbuster exclusive soon that will push consoles.
One thing MS did so far during this holiday season is to bundles kiddie
games with the 360 on all models and that seems to have an effect (Lego Indy
Jones & Kung Fu Panda). Maybe Sony could try that as well as a price cut.

What bums me out is that the new "Brothers In Arms: Highway To Hell"
is
ps3 exclusive . (I'm stuck with my ps2 !)

Otherwise YES !...this damn console (the ps3 ) is WAY too pricey !

And what about the legendary "Ring Of Death" ?

tony .

"The Piper at The Gates of Dawn" <tm0418222.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b4144422-5218-4a2c-a69a-5c0a055222d7@r2g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> What bums me out is that the new "Brothers In Arms: Highway To Hell"
> is
> ps3 exclusive . (I'm stuck with my ps2 !)
>
> Otherwise YES !...this damn console (the ps3 ) is WAY too pricey !
>
> And what about the legendary "Ring Of Death" ?
>
> tony .

The Ring of Death is a myth. I will bet you $100 can't find one person who
has ever had a Ring of Death on their PS3.

On Dec 15, 2:50 am, Luke Curtis <l....TakeThisOut@NOSPAM.whofan.plus.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:28:37 -0600, Doug Jacobs <djac....TakeThisOut@rawbw.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 AirRaid <airraidfigh....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>   1. It's the most expensive console on the market, $150 - $200 more
> >> than its rivals. Even if you believe the video game industry is
> >> "recession-proof" (it isn't), a tanking economy makes consumers more
> >> price-conscious.
>
> >So much for Sony's claim that "consumers like our prices".
>
> >>   2. The PS3's big bonus is its ability to double as a Blu-Ray
> >> player. Too bad no one seems to care about hi-def DVDs. The
> >> differences between Blu-Ray and DVD are hard to see on a TV less than
> >> 50".
>
> >I have to wonder how well those $200 blu-ray players are selling.  Is the
> >PS3 losing sales due to them?
>
> >>   3. The PS3 just doesn't have any must-have titles exclusive to the
> >> console. "LittleBigPlanet" has generated decent buzz but isn't a game-
> >> changer, and neither is Sony's new virtual world "Home."
>
> >I think we can all agree this is a bit of an exaggeration.
>
> Is it?
> how many big exclusives has there been? the only recent ones that
> stand out for me are Little Big Planet which is OK but nothing
> special, Metal gear Solid 4 which I thought really was dreadfully
> average and Motor Storm 2 the demo of which looked like more of the
> same and Resistance 2 which I haven't played.
>
> Since games are virtually identical on both systems why buy the far
> more expensive system that looks truly horrible and with a dreadful
> network interface?
>
>
>
> >However, I do have wonder why is it that while other PS3 games have come
> >down in price, all of the PS3's exclusives are STILL $60.  For example, I
> >was at Fry's last night where the PS3 games are on one side of the aisle,
> >and the 360 games are on the other side.
>
> >All the games that were cross platform were cheaper such as Oblivion GOTY
> >Edition, and Orange Box.  Both were $19.99 on the PS3 and the 360.  But
> >exclusive titles, like Ratchet & Clank, Lair, and even Heavenly Sword,
> >were still $60.  I just don't get it.  360 exclusives that had been out
> >roughly the same length of time were $40, $30, even $20.  
>
> >That makes no sense to me.  Is this due to low sales?  But then shouldn't
> >low demand cause lower prices?  Counter-wise, shouldn't popular 360 games
> >be even more expensive?
>
> the way around. "Economies of Scale".
>
> If you are a shop buying say Fallout 3 on both systems, 10 of PS3 and
> 50 on the 360 then you negotiate a better price for the 360 because
> you are buying more.
>
>
>
> >> There's really only one option left for Sony to remain in the game:
> >> deep price cuts, and not just for people with good credit. Sony's PS3
> >> A Sinking Ship: Sales Plummet, but a $400 console with a mediocre game
> >> library simply cannot compete against an Xbox 360 priced at $200 in
> >> this economy.
>
> >I'm not even sure Sony can afford a modest price cut, much less dropping
> >prices by $200 or more.
>
> >It also doesn't help things much when you look at what comes with each
> >console.  Both the Wii and 360 now come with at least 1 disc of games and
> >that's before any bundling that the stores are doing.  Even the PS3
> >bundles I've seen have been ultra lame this holiday, as most of them
> >simply bundle an extra accessory or two, with little or no overall savings.
>
> http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/984740
> 360, 60gig HD,  2 controllers, 3 games - £179
>
> http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/136394
> PS3 80gig HD, 1 controller, 1 game. - £293.60
>
> Until the price of Blu-ray disks come down from there is no reason to
> pay £100 more for a PS3.
>
> To make yourself distinctive you need a USP, the 360 has Live, an
> extremely stong and well intergrated network system and the extremely
> innovtive Achievement ystem which gives you a huge reason to keep
> playing, I am playing Fallout 3 and competed it but have been playing
> it to get the full 1000 points - I know the PS3 has the trophies but
> it is all too late, I have or have had 11 PS3 games but only 2 had
> tropy support, Uncharted which I had to restart because it was only
> brought in after a patch and LBP.
>
But shouldn't you include the price of the Gold membership ($50/year
so if you had it from start, that's about $150 extra now for the
360?). To me the 360 is not cheaper (to me, it's actually more
expensive than the PS3, if I include the $100 wireless adapter).
Another thing I don't understand is that achievement thing. You
actually said you finished a game, but kept playing (probably without
enjoying it, just so you could get 1000 points)... something you could
do without any achievements system. What's the big deal about it? Do
they send you gifts or free games for that?

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:28:37 -0600, Doug Jacobs <djacobs DeleteThis @rawbw.com>
wrote:

>In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 AirRaid <airraidfighter DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1. It's the most expensive console on the market, $150 - $200 more
>> than its rivals. Even if you believe the video game industry is
>> "recession-proof" (it isn't), a tanking economy makes consumers more
>> price-conscious.
>
>So much for Sony's claim that "consumers like our prices".
>
>> 2. The PS3's big bonus is its ability to double as a Blu-Ray
>> player. Too bad no one seems to care about hi-def DVDs. The
>> differences between Blu-Ray and DVD are hard to see on a TV less than
>> 50".
>
>I have to wonder how well those $200 blu-ray players are selling. Is the
>PS3 losing sales due to them?
>
>> 3. The PS3 just doesn't have any must-have titles exclusive to the
>> console. "LittleBigPlanet" has generated decent buzz but isn't a game-
>> changer, and neither is Sony's new virtual world "Home."
>
>I think we can all agree this is a bit of an exaggeration.
Is it?
how many big exclusives has there been? the only recent ones that
stand out for me are Little Big Planet which is OK but nothing
special, Metal gear Solid 4 which I thought really was dreadfully
average and Motor Storm 2 the demo of which looked like more of the
same and Resistance 2 which I haven't played.


Since games are virtually identical on both systems why buy the far
more expensive system that looks truly horrible and with a dreadful
network interface?



>
>However, I do have wonder why is it that while other PS3 games have come
>down in price, all of the PS3's exclusives are STILL $60. For example, I
>was at Fry's last night where the PS3 games are on one side of the aisle,
>and the 360 games are on the other side.
>
>All the games that were cross platform were cheaper such as Oblivion GOTY
>Edition, and Orange Box. Both were $19.99 on the PS3 and the 360. But
>exclusive titles, like Ratchet & Clank, Lair, and even Heavenly Sword,
>were still $60. I just don't get it. 360 exclusives that had been out
>roughly the same length of time were $40, $30, even $20.
>
>That makes no sense to me. Is this due to low sales? But then shouldn't
>low demand cause lower prices? Counter-wise, shouldn't popular 360 games
>be even more expensive?

the way around. "Economies of Scale".

If you are a shop buying say Fallout 3 on both systems, 10 of PS3 and
50 on the 360 then you negotiate a better price for the 360 because
you are buying more.



>
>> There's really only one option left for Sony to remain in the game:
>> deep price cuts, and not just for people with good credit. Sony's PS3
>> A Sinking Ship: Sales Plummet, but a $400 console with a mediocre game
>> library simply cannot compete against an Xbox 360 priced at $200 in
>> this economy.
>
>I'm not even sure Sony can afford a modest price cut, much less dropping
>prices by $200 or more.
>
>It also doesn't help things much when you look at what comes with each
>console. Both the Wii and 360 now come with at least 1 disc of games and
>that's before any bundling that the stores are doing. Even the PS3
>bundles I've seen have been ultra lame this holiday, as most of them
>simply bundle an extra accessory or two, with little or no overall savings.


http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/984740
360, 60gig HD, 2 controllers, 3 games - £179


http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/136394
PS3 80gig HD, 1 controller, 1 game. - £293.60

Until the price of Blu-ray disks come down from there is no reason to
pay £100 more for a PS3.


To make yourself distinctive you need a USP, the 360 has Live, an
extremely stong and well intergrated network system and the extremely
innovtive Achievement ystem which gives you a huge reason to keep
playing, I am playing Fallout 3 and competed it but have been playing
it to get the full 1000 points - I know the PS3 has the trophies but
it is all too late, I have or have had 11 PS3 games but only 2 had
tropy support, Uncharted which I had to restart because it was only
brought in after a patch and LBP.

-
XBox 360 GT: Broton69

--
ButIstillneedtoknowwhat'sinthere! Thekeytoanysecurity
systemishowit'sdesigned! Thatdependsonwhyitwasdesigned!
Ihavetoknowwhatwhoeverdesigneditwastryingtoprotect!
(Blakes 7, City on the Edge of the World - Vila in typical panic mode)

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Game-Time <urkiddingme DeleteThis @getalife.com> wrote:
> Agreed and they need a blockbuster exclusive soon that will push consoles.
> One thing MS did so far during this holiday season is to bundles kiddie
> games with the 360 on all models and that seems to have an effect (Lego Indy
> Jones & Kung Fu Panda). Maybe Sony could try that as well as a price cut.

This is what I don't get. Last year, the 40GB PS3 came with the blu-ray
Spiderman3, and many places threw in a family-friendly game, like Ratchet
& Clank along with a 2nd controller and the DVD remote for $499. Why
aren't places doing this again this Christmas? The closest so far is
Walmart, but only if you order online, and even then they're only
discounting things by about $10-15 - and you'll pay way more than that in
shipping.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 The Piper at The Gates of Dawn <tm0418222 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> And what about the legendary "Ring Of Death" ?

The RROD problem has basically been solved since Microsoft introduced a
smaller, less heat-producing CPU into the 360 last year. This year, they
also replaced the graphics processor in the 360 with a smaller, less
heat-producing model. This not only reduces the amount of heat that the
360 produces, which was a major cause of the RROD, but also makes the 360
even cheaper to produce which is probably why you're seeing Microsoft ship
2 titles with the Pro and Elite models, as opposed to dropping the price
by about $30-50.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Yeah it's a Blu-Ray player, but Blu-Ray releases are $25. Who wants
to pay $150 more for the console and then have to shell out $25 per
movie? Blu-Ray is a LOT better quality than DVD, even on a 42" TV.
And Blu-Ray or another HD format has a lot of promise for transfers of
old movies, a good film to digital transfer can produce amazing
results.

Other than price the biggest PS3 problem is the removal of backward
compability with PS2. If you expect people to pay more than any other
console, at least throw them a bone and let their old games work on
it.

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Wolfing <wolfing1.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> But shouldn't you include the price of the Gold membership ($50/year
> so if you had it from start, that's about $150 extra now for the
> 360?). To me the 360 is not cheaper (to me, it's actually more
> expensive than the PS3, if I include the $100 wireless adapter).
> Another thing I don't understand is that achievement thing. You
> actually said you finished a game, but kept playing (probably without
> enjoying it, just so you could get 1000 points)... something you could
> do without any achievements system. What's the big deal about it? Do
> they send you gifts or free games for that?

Not everyone needs wireless connectivity for their 360 and given the cost
at the time when the 360 premiered, it would have added at least $30-50 to
the MSRP of the console - something Microsoft was at least trying to keep
down.

If Microsoft were smart, they could have designed the console to have
internal wireless, but just left those sockets on the board unpopulated
until such time it became affordable to include them. This is sort of
what the PS2 had with its network adapter. At first, you had to buy it
separately, then it was included with the PS2, and later integrated into
the Slim model.

As for the Live Gold subscription, yes you're paying for it. At the same
time, however, you're also getting a much better online environment for
playing games. If Sony wanted to really shake things up, they should have
taken all the features from Live, thrown them into Home, and launched the
PS3 in 2006 with that. For free. That would have reaelly been a big blow
against Microsoft. Unfortunately that didn't happen. The PS3's launch
dated approached and developers had to ditch online features simply because
Sony's online plans hadn't progressed any further than their marketplace
interface.


--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

On Dec 15, 11:57 am, Doug Jacobs <djac... DeleteThis @rawbw.com> wrote:
> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 The Piper at The Gates of Dawn <tm0418... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > And what about the legendary "Ring Of Death" ?
>
> The RROD problem has basically been solved since Microsoft introduced a
> smaller, less heat-producing CPU  into the 360 last year.

There have been reports of RROD with the Falcon chipset. It's not as
widespread but "not as widespread" != "gone forever."

> This year, they
> also replaced the graphics processor in the 360 with a smaller, less
> heat-producing model.

There are some tech experts who think the Jasper chipset will have all
but eradicated the RROD issue but it hasn't been long enough since the
release of the first models to really be able to tell.

> This not only reduces the amount of heat that the
> 360 produces, which was a major cause of the RROD, but also makes the 360
> even cheaper to produce which is probably why you're seeing Microsoft ship
> 2 titles with the Pro and Elite models, as opposed to dropping the price
> by about $30-50.

Do they need to do another price adjustment? I doubt they'd even
consider this for at least another half-year or so.

On Dec 15, 9:54 am, Wolfing <wolfi... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 2:50 am, Luke Curtis <l... RemoveThis @NOSPAM.whofan.plus.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:28:37 -0600, Doug Jacobs <djac... RemoveThis @rawbw.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 AirRaid <airraidfigh... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>   1. It's the most expensive console on the market, $150 - $200 more
> > >> than its rivals. Even if you believe the video game industry is
> > >> "recession-proof" (it isn't), a tanking economy makes consumers more
> > >> price-conscious.
>
> > >So much for Sony's claim that "consumers like our prices".
>
> > >>   2. The PS3's big bonus is its ability to double as a Blu-Ray
> > >> player. Too bad no one seems to care about hi-def DVDs. The
> > >> differences between Blu-Ray and DVD are hard to see on a TV less than
> > >> 50".
>
> > >I have to wonder how well those $200 blu-ray players are selling.  Is the
> > >PS3 losing sales due to them?
>
> > >>   3. The PS3 just doesn't have any must-have titles exclusive to the
> > >> console. "LittleBigPlanet" has generated decent buzz but isn't a game-
> > >> changer, and neither is Sony's new virtual world "Home."
>
> > >I think we can all agree this is a bit of an exaggeration.
>
> > Is it?
> > how many big exclusives has there been? the only recent ones that
> > stand out for me are Little Big Planet which is OK but nothing
> > special, Metal gear Solid 4 which I thought really was dreadfully
> > average and Motor Storm 2 the demo of which looked like more of the
> > same and Resistance 2 which I haven't played.
>
> > Since games are virtually identical on both systems why buy the far
> > more expensive system that looks truly horrible and with a dreadful
> > network interface?
>
> > >However, I do have wonder why is it that while other PS3 games have come
> > >down in price, all of the PS3's exclusives are STILL $60.  For example, I
> > >was at Fry's last night where the PS3 games are on one side of the aisle,
> > >and the 360 games are on the other side.
>
> > >All the games that were cross platform were cheaper such as Oblivion GOTY
> > >Edition, and Orange Box.  Both were $19.99 on the PS3 and the 360.  But
> > >exclusive titles, like Ratchet & Clank, Lair, and even Heavenly Sword,
> > >were still $60.  I just don't get it.  360 exclusives that had been out
> > >roughly the same length of time were $40, $30, even $20.  
>
> > >That makes no sense to me.  Is this due to low sales?  But then shouldn't
> > >low demand cause lower prices?  Counter-wise, shouldn't popular 360 games
> > >be even more expensive?
>
> > the way around. "Economies of Scale".
>
> > If you are a shop buying say Fallout 3 on both systems, 10 of PS3 and
> > 50 on the 360 then you negotiate a better price for the 360 because
> > you are buying more.
>
> > >> There's really only one option left for Sony to remain in the game:
> > >> deep price cuts, and not just for people with good credit. Sony's PS3
> > >> A Sinking Ship: Sales Plummet, but a $400 console with a mediocre game
> > >> library simply cannot compete against an Xbox 360 priced at $200 in
> > >> this economy.
>
> > >I'm not even sure Sony can afford a modest price cut, much less dropping
> > >prices by $200 or more.
>
> > >It also doesn't help things much when you look at what comes with each
> > >console.  Both the Wii and 360 now come with at least 1 disc of games and
> > >that's before any bundling that the stores are doing.  Even the PS3
> > >bundles I've seen have been ultra lame this holiday, as most of them
> > >simply bundle an extra accessory or two, with little or no overall savings.
>
> >http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/984740
> > 360, 60gig HD,  2 controllers, 3 games - £179
>
> >http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/136394
> > PS3 80gig HD, 1 controller, 1 game. - £293.60
>
> > Until the price of Blu-ray disks come down from there is no reason to
> > pay £100 more for a PS3.
>
> > To make yourself distinctive you need a USP, the 360 has Live, an
> > extremely stong and well intergrated network system and the extremely
> > innovtive Achievement ystem which gives you a huge reason to keep
> > playing, I am playing Fallout 3 and competed it but have been playing
> > it to get the full 1000 points - I know the PS3 has the trophies but
> > it is all too late, I have or have had 11 PS3 games but only 2 had
> > tropy support, Uncharted which I had to restart because it was only
> > brought in after a patch and LBP.
>
> But shouldn't you include the price of the Gold membership ($50/year
> so if you had it from start, that's about $150 extra now for the
> 360?).  To me the 360 is not cheaper (to me, it's actually more
> expensive than the PS3, if I include the $100 wireless adapter).
> Another thing I don't understand is that achievement thing.  You
> actually said you finished a game, but kept playing (probably without
> enjoying it, just so you could get 1000 points)... something you could
> do without any achievements system. What's the big deal about it?  Do
> they send you gifts or free games for that?

You could certainly do the same thing but how would you track the ones
that involve doing a specific action a certain number of times?
Achievements give you a very clear and defined goal to shoot for. If
you don't want to partake in these challenges, you don't have to, but
it's something extra for a gamer to do if they feel like it.

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Luke Curtis <luke RemoveThis @nospam.whofan.plus.com> wrote:

> To make yourself distinctive you need a USP, the 360 has Live, an
> extremely stong and well intergrated network system and the extremely
> innovtive Achievement ystem which gives you a huge reason to keep
> playing, I am playing Fallout 3 and competed it but have been playing
> it to get the full 1000 points - I know the PS3 has the trophies but
> it is all too late, I have or have had 11 PS3 games but only 2 had
> tropy support, Uncharted which I had to restart because it was only
> brought in after a patch and LBP.

If Sony wasn't going to make trophies mandatory for all new games after,
say, firmware 2.50 was released, then they're mostly pointless.
Achievements wouldn't be nearly so popular if they were only supported by
"some" games, and as a result, trophies on the PS3 are essentially a
non-feature.

As for Achievements in general, they vary from game to game. On average,
you'll end up unlocking about half of them simply by playing through the
game as you normally would. These mainly cover things like completing
levels, or events that are part of the game's main story. About 25% tend
to involve online play in some way. If you ask me, this is a great way to
upsell Live Gold. It gets you to at least try online play, and once you
have the subscription, you might as well get your money's worth and play
your other games online. The remaining 25% of most achievements are only
for the hardcore fans of the game. These are the inane entries such as
finding 100% of all collectibles, accumulating a number of reptitve
actions like 100 headshots, or accomplishing some difficult task like lugging
that gnome statue with you in Half Life 2. They take hours and hours to
accomplish for a measely amount of paoints in return.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.