BLACK FRIDAY - Xbox 360 outsells PS3 3-to-1

On Dec 3, 11:43 am, The alMIGHTY N <natle... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> The Wii uses a modified version of the GameCube architecture that
> gives it nearly twice the "power" of the GameCube and allows it to
> play all GameCube games and even use GameCube controllers and memory
> cards. The GameCube was more powerful than the Playstation 2.
>

Corrections

Wii is 1.5x or 50% more powerful than GameCube, not twice as powerful.
Wii uses basicly the same architecture as GCN, but Wii CPU/GPU is
clocked 50% faster Although, Wii does have 3.5x more fast RAM than
GameCube (88 MB vs 24 MB) which is the biggest difference in 'power',
a bigger difference than the actual CPU/GPU.


As for GameCube vs PlayStation2, both systems had various strengths
and weaknesses. GCN was not more powerful than PS2 in *every* aspect,
although GCN was more 'powerful' or better/ more efficient than PS2 in
many ways. PS2 had alot more flexibility with its CPU which had more
floating point performance (6.2 GFLOPs vs 1.9 GFLOPs). Most of
GameCube's power, like with Xbox1, was in the Flipper GPU. PS2's
Graphics Synthesizer can draw more pixels and more polygons than GCN's
Flipper GPU, but only when doing single-textured polygons. When doing
alot of multi-texturing / multi effects per polygon, the GCN's Flipper
really shines. It doesn't lose performance as fast as PS2's GS.
Overall the GCN was a better architecture than PS2, and things are
just more of that with the Wii.

But PS2's advantages over GCN are about the same vs Wii. PS2's CPU is
still more capable than Wii's CPU. But as I said, GCN/Wii
architecture is better, more efficient than that of PS2 architecture,
making GCN and Wii more 'powerful' in real-world / actual games,
overall compared to PS2.

On Dec 3, 8:55 pm, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s....DeleteThis@fk.u.com> wrote:

> The ones that are of the next generation after the X-Box/PS2 obviously.
> Although technically, they are now the current generation, and it's the
> ones that will follow afterwards that are next-gen!

True.

This is how I look at it:

last-gen is:
Dreamcast, PlayStation2, GameCube, Xbox

current-gen is:
Xbox 360, Wii, PlayStation3

or you could subdivide 360/PS3 and Wii into:
current-generation HD and "new generation" SD

next-gen is:
Xbox Next (3rd gen Xbox), Wii HD (Wii 2, Super Wii or whatever),
PlayStation4

Nick Soapdish, Jr. wrote:
> On Dec 3, 11:43 am, The alMIGHTY N <natle... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 3, 10:43 am, Luke Curtis <l... DeleteThis @NOSPAM.whofan.plus.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The PS3 and the 360 are proper games consoles, the Wii is a toy.
>>
>> What exactly is a "proper games console" and who decided on the
>> definition?
>>
>> The Wii uses a modified version of the GameCube architecture that
>> gives it nearly twice the "power" of the GameCube and allows it to
>> play all GameCube games and even use GameCube controllers and memory
>> cards. The GameCube was more powerful than the Playstation 2.
>>
>> If what you say is true, the Playstation 2 is not and never was a
>> "proper games console."
>>
>> Try again
>
> Actually, I was under the impression that the Wii is only slightly
> more "powerful" than a Gamecube, not twice as powerful.

It doesn't matter how powerful it is, I certainly wouldn't consider the Wii
a 'next-gen' console. But it is very popular as family entertainment and it
has a big gimmick factor in a lot of its games. So yes, it might sell a
lot, but it's not as relevant to us serious games players as the x-box 360
or PS3.

"Stephen O'Connell" <no.spam.DeleteThis@fk.u.com> wrote in message
news:gh7bb6$s5u$1@news.motzarella.org...
> Nick Soapdish, Jr. wrote:
>> On Dec 3, 11:43 am, The alMIGHTY N <natle....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 3, 10:43 am, Luke Curtis <l....DeleteThis@NOSPAM.whofan.plus.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The PS3 and the 360 are proper games consoles, the Wii is a toy.
>>>
>>> What exactly is a "proper games console" and who decided on the
>>> definition?
>>>
>>> The Wii uses a modified version of the GameCube architecture that
>>> gives it nearly twice the "power" of the GameCube and allows it to
>>> play all GameCube games and even use GameCube controllers and memory
>>> cards. The GameCube was more powerful than the Playstation 2.
>>>
>>> If what you say is true, the Playstation 2 is not and never was a
>>> "proper games console."
>>>
>>> Try again
>>
>> Actually, I was under the impression that the Wii is only slightly
>> more "powerful" than a Gamecube, not twice as powerful.
>
> It doesn't matter how powerful it is, I certainly wouldn't consider the
> Wii a 'next-gen' console. But it is very popular as family entertainment
> and it has a big gimmick factor in a lot of its games. So yes, it might
> sell a lot, but it's not as relevant to us serious games players as the
> x-box 360 or PS3.
>

Stop speaking as you if represent "serious" games players because there are
tons of PC game players who feel that the PS3 and 360 are just as kiddie as
the Wii. Before you get in the habit of just throwing out opinions as fact,
answer this. What is a 'next-gen' console?

Mattinglyfan wrote:
> "Stephen O'Connell" <no.spam RemoveThis @fk.u.com> wrote in message
> news:gh7bb6$s5u$1@news.motzarella.org...
>> Nick Soapdish, Jr. wrote:
>>> On Dec 3, 11:43 am, The alMIGHTY N <natle... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 3, 10:43 am, Luke Curtis <l... RemoveThis @NOSPAM.whofan.plus.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The PS3 and the 360 are proper games consoles, the Wii is a toy.
>>>>
>>>> What exactly is a "proper games console" and who decided on the
>>>> definition?
>>>>
>>>> The Wii uses a modified version of the GameCube architecture that
>>>> gives it nearly twice the "power" of the GameCube and allows it to
>>>> play all GameCube games and even use GameCube controllers and
>>>> memory cards. The GameCube was more powerful than the Playstation
>>>> 2. If what you say is true, the Playstation 2 is not and never was a
>>>> "proper games console."
>>>>
>>>> Try again
>>>
>>> Actually, I was under the impression that the Wii is only slightly
>>> more "powerful" than a Gamecube, not twice as powerful.
>>
>> It doesn't matter how powerful it is, I certainly wouldn't consider
>> the Wii a 'next-gen' console. But it is very popular as family
>> entertainment and it has a big gimmick factor in a lot of its games.
>> So yes, it might sell a lot, but it's not as relevant to us serious
>> games players as the x-box 360 or PS3.
>
> Stop speaking as you if represent "serious" games players because
> there are tons of PC game players who feel that the PS3 and 360 are
> just as kiddie as the Wii. Before you get in the habit of just
> throwing out opinions as fact, answer this. What is a 'next-gen'
> console?

The ones that are of the next generation after the X-Box/PS2 obviously.
Although technically, they are now the current generation, and it's the
ones that will follow afterwards that are next-gen! But this was a
discussion about console sales, and this is a console newsgroup, so
that's all I'm dealing with. And yes, it's my opinion as that's all any
Usenet post is, an opinion. But the people here know what I mean.

As for PC gaming, nobody slagged it off. I used to play quite a lot of PC
games, I still play Age of Kings [conquerors] and that's god knows how many
years old! I even play my sons Nintendo DS, but I do prefer my x-box 360 it
has to be said. The problem I had with PC games was the constant upgrading
of my video card, as certain games didn't play on my old one. So a console
suits me fine.

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:43:42 -0800 (PST), The alMIGHTY N
<natlee75 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Dec 3, 10:43 am, Luke Curtis <l... DeleteThis @NOSPAM.whofan.plus.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), ks... DeleteThis @webtv.net wrote:
>> >On Dec 2, 10:03 am, mordacpreven... DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Dec 2, 7:02 am, The alMIGHTY N <natle... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > On Dec 1, 10:27 pm, AirRaid <airraidfigh... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > PRESS RELEASE
>> >> > > Xbox 360 Registers Biggest Black Friday in Its History
>> >> > > Xbox 360 consoles and games sell at record levels; outsells
>> >> > > PlayStation 3 by three-to-one ratio.
>>
>> >> > > REDMOND, Wash., Dec 01, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ --
>> >> > > Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system kicked
>> >> > > off the holidays with record- breaking console sales on one of the
>> >> > > biggest shopping weekends of the year in the U.S. Retailers reported
>> >> > > Xbox 360 console sales over the Black Friday weekend were on pace to
>> >> > > beat previous years, outselling the PlayStation 3 by a three-to-one
>> >> > > ratio and estimating a 25 percent increase from Xbox 360 Black Friday
>> >> > > sales figures from 2007.
>>
>> >> > > Strong game sales rounded out a historic Black Friday for Xbox 360,
>> >> > > with record-paced software sales continuing for key Microsoft titles,
>> >> > > such as "Gears of War 2," "Fable II," and "Lips." Xbox 360 continues
>> >> > > to have the highest game attach rate of any console at 8.1 games per
>> >> > > console.
>>
>> >> > > "We entered into the Black Friday sales period with cautious optimism,
>> >> > > knowing that dollar for dollar, Xbox 360 offers more social
>> >> > > entertainment value than any other console on the market," said Don
>> >> > > Mattrick, senior vice president of the Interactive Entertainment
>> >> > > Business at Microsoft. "Record Black Friday sales in the U.S., coupled
>> >> > > with our existing global install base of 25 million and an online
>> >> > > community of more than 14 million Xbox LIVE members, have laid the
>> >> > > groundwork for continued global sales momentum in 2009."
>>
>> >> > > Xbox 360 sales have also surged worldwide since the September price
>> >> > > drop, outselling the PlayStation 3 week over week across Europe.
>> >> > > Console sales in Europe are up as much as 400 percent, with sales
>> >> > > nearly double year over year and reaching 7 million consoles sold this
>> >> > > generation.
>>
>> >> > > With a mass-market price point starting at $199.99 worldwide
>> >> > > (estimated retail price) for Xbox 360 Arcade, a games lineup of more
>> >> > > broad-appeal social titles than any other platform, and the recently
>> >> > > launched New Xbox Experience, Xbox 360 is leading the industry and
>> >> > > inviting everyone to play.
>>
>> >> > >http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Xbox-360-Registers-Biggest-Blac...{30D240D0-C7F8-4AFF-956D-5072AC0F997A}
>>
>> >> > Conspicuous in its absence is any mention of the Wii's sales... but
>> >> > this *is* a press release from Microsoft.-
>>
>> >> Serious question:
>>
>> >> Is it really meaningful to include the Wii in a comparison with the
>> >> PS3 and the 360 when neither of those systems competes for the same
>> >> market as the Wii?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >That's what I was thinking. I don't consider the Wii in the same
>> >category as the PS3 and 360.
>>
>> The PS3 and the 360 are proper games consoles, the Wii is a toy.
>
>What exactly is a "proper games console" and who decided on the
>definition?
>
>The Wii uses a modified version of the GameCube architecture that
>gives it nearly twice the "power" of the GameCube and allows it to
>play all GameCube games and even use GameCube controllers and memory
>cards. The GameCube was more powerful than the Playstation 2.
>
>If what you say is true, the Playstation 2 is not and never was a
>"proper games console."

It as nothing whatsoever to do with power but with the design of the
console.

>
>Try again.

The Wii is basically a jazzed up Gamecube with a novelty toy
controller.

I hear so many people say "I have a Wii, it is really great".... but
when you press them they haven't played it for a couple of
weeks/months - it is a toy you roll out to play occasionally when you
have mates round - it is great at that but terrible at playing serious
single player games, that is what most people tell me - that is even
Nintendo seem to imply in the advert I saw tonight, all about party
games, nothing about "serious" games.
-
XBox 360 GT: Broton69

--
ButIstillneedtoknowwhat'sinthere! Thekeytoanysecurity
systemishowit'sdesigned! Thatdependsonwhyitwasdesigned!
Ihavetoknowwhatwhoeverdesigneditwastryingtoprotect!
(Blakes 7, City on the Edge of the World - Vila in typical panic mode)

When I

ksdj1 RemoveThis @webtv.net wrote:
> When I
>

The same thing happens t

Mattinglyfan wrote
>
> I guarantee that my son would rather have a 360 or a PS3
> than a Wii in his room so he would lean that way as well.

Buy him one for Christmas! Or if you are rich, buy him both.
He'll thank you for it!

"Stephen O'Connell" <no.spam DeleteThis @fk.u.com> wrote in message
news:ghkhek$7cd$1@news.motzarella.org...
> Mattinglyfan wrote
>>
>> I guarantee that my son would rather have a 360 or a PS3 than a Wii in
>> his room so he would lean that way as well.
>
> Buy him one for Christmas! Or if you are rich, buy him both. He'll thank
> you for it!
>
>

We already have both in the house. I was talking about his own but I am
already buying him a laptop instead.

The alMIGHTY N wrote:

[...]
> Yes, but "a hard-core, balls-to-the-wall gaming experience" is not
> definitive of "video games" and a sales comparison says nothing to how
> hardcore the individual systems are. The only thing that matters in
> sales comparisons is the platform.
>
> You're simply trying to push a personal opinion about what makes a
> *good* video game system as a definitive factor in the market when
> it's not.

No, I'm not trying to "push" my opinion, just express it. If others
disagree that's fine.

--
dvus

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 dvus <doug RemoveThis @dvenator.com.invalid> wrote:
>> So its the GAMES that makes it not a direct competitor? If that's the
>> case than the DS doesn't compete with the PSP because it is the exact
>> same situation.
>
> To be honest, I can't speak to your analogy because I'm not familiar with
> the DS or the PSP. I consider myself a "serious" gamer, despite the fact
> that I'm not very good at it and AFAIK those devices, and for that matter
> the Wii, don't deliver the experience I crave. Sure, I'd love to have a
> Wii, but I'd also had an electric hockey game. If what you want is a
> hard-core, balls-to-the-wall gaming experience you have two basic choices,
> and we all know which those are.

Whether or not a given device meets your needs or not, doesn't exclude it
from being part of the market. Many people wouldn't even consider Bose
speakers when shopping for a home theater, or Monster Cables when shopping
for A/V cables, yet they are part of their respective markets.

A home video game console is an electronic device that is usually
connected to a television and plays games that are for one or more
people. Games are sold separately from the console, usually on some form
of removable media. Multiplayer is accomplished either through multiple
people playing together in the same room, or increasingly, by connecting
to another console over the internet.

This would mean that the Wii IS part of this generation of game consoles.
You could also argue that it would also mean that things like Leapster's
newer products would almost be considered a video game console, but in
general the market analysts like to split "games" and "edutainment" into
different categories. Note that this excludes portable devices, like the
Nintendo DS, and the Sony PSP, as well as those "TV Games" type gadgets
that come with a few games inside, but offer no expansions or additional
games via cartridge, disc or other media.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

dvus wrote:
> The alMIGHTY N wrote:
>> On Dec 8, 8:29 am, "dvus" <d... RemoveThis @dvenator.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> How *DARE* you disagree with me?!? Oops, sorry, must have picked
>>> something up from some fanboi poster or other. Anyways, I still feel
>>> that although the Wii has outsold the other two it isn't in the
>>> competition for a large section of those looking for a gaming
>>> console.
>>
>> How large could that section really be? The Wii install base is 93%
>> of the COMBINED install base for Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. The
>> Wii's latest weekly sales numbers are higher than the other two
>> combined. The Wii is apparently still sold out everywhere while the
>> Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 are more likely to collect dust on the
>> shelves. If supply had met demand during the entire life of the Wii, it
>> would
>> likely have an install base 150% or more compared to the other two
>> systems combined.
>
> No doubt it's a popular item. I just don't consider it in the same
> league with the 360 or PS3. Now, please stop disagreeing with me or
> I'll report you to your provider's abuse desk.

The Wii is very popular. Nobody can doubt that.

>>> Conversely, I'd bet that
>>> many of those looking for what the Wii offers wouldn't even consider
>>> the other two for various reasons.
>>
>> I'd bet that a lot of people who purchased a Wii at some point would
>> have purchased an Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3 (if they haven't
>> already) if the Wii had never existed.
>
> Maybe. Maybe not. I *still* think the Wii appeals to a different
> crowd.

It is probably a good 2nd console to have, if you have a family and
own a PS3 or X-Box 360 already. The one thing Nintendo always were
good at was family entertainment. As somebody recently pointed out,
Mario Kart was a more enjoyable racing game than some of the more
modern racing games, and I'd have to agree with them. Nintendo do
playability.

>>> Do you consider consoles like the Leapster
>>> as competition for the 360 or the PS3, or would you if their sales
>>> approached those of the Wii?
>>
>> Of course not. The Leapster is not a video game console or portable.
>> It may play some simple electronic games but they're nowhere near as
>> complex in any sense as even Wii or DS games. There's no reasonable
>> and logical way to compare that with any video game system.
>
> I realize that, it was just a silly analogy to illustrate my point. I
> just don't consider the Wii the same thing as a 360 or PS3.

I don't either. But it does look like fun. Fun as in laughing at others on
the living room carpet acting like fools with a wand in their hands!!!

>> I hear so-called "hardcore" gamers saying that the Wii is a toy. If
>> that's the case, then the Playstation 2 is and was always a toy since
>> it was less powerful than the GameCube which is about half as
>> powerful as the Wii. I guess the Dreamcast, the Nintendo 64, the
>> Super Nintendo, the Playstation, etc. and so forth were all toys.
>
> I'd guess that by "toy" people mean it's a toy like a frisbee or a
> jumping rope, except you plug it in and play virtually. I *don't*
> mean to denigrate the Wii, but as a so-called "serious" gamer it just
> doesn't do the trick for me.

Can't say I would be interested in it myself, (honest guv) but my son
does want one for Christmas.

> Maybe we need a show of hands in here on this issue. Who thinks
> Almightyn and Mattinglyfan, (who said all you people are jerks) are
> right, and who thinks I, (who said all you people are the best), is
> right? I'll pay 10,000 quatloos to everyone who votes for me.

They are entitled to their views, and from their point of view they are not
wrong. But I'd be leaning in to your camp a bit more than theirs. I don't
care how many Wii's sell, and if it outsells the PS3/X-Box 360, good for
Nintendo. But I personally wouldn't want to sit down and spend hours in
front of the TV playing with Yoshi/Wario/Peach et all. However, I do have
an N64 emulator on my PC and I do play 'Zelda: Ocarina of Time' on
occasion, as that WAS a classic and is more playable than some of the
modern 'glitzy graphics' games that are available on the main consoles
now... by far. So each to their own and all that.