New Article

On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw....RemoveThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
Two-three months is a long wait.
Give a synopsis now or at least post an answer to a question you have
found and get a discussion going. One good item can generate months of
discussion.

> It is co-authored by M. Stanwick and a Chinese playing card
> researcher.
>
> The article seeks to offer an explanation for the certain tile groups
> that appear in mid 19th century and early 20th century ma que sets
> using evidence recently acquired by the authors.

I have an explanation for "kings" and "variables" too. My explanation
is based on word meaning (etymology) and cosmology I learned recently.
++++++++++++++
Cheers.....al

On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw....RemoveThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
Some old Mah-Jong sets had tiles named East King, West King, South
King, North King and a Middle or Central King (东王, 南王, 西王, 北王, 中王).

ANOTHER PATTERN INCLUDES HEAVEN KING, EARTH KING, MANKIND KING AND ALL-
IN-ONE KING

> [..]
>
> The article seeks to offer an explanation for the certain tile groups
> that appear in mid 19th century and early 20th century ma que sets
> using evidence recently acquired by the authors.

I BEG TO DIFFER. MA QUE OR MAH-JONG SETS USED IN MID 19TH CENTURY AND
EARLY 20TH CENTURY WERE NOT "19TH CENTURY...OR 20TH CENTURY MA QUE
SETS". THEY COULD HAVE BEEN 17TH, 15TH OR 11TH CENTURY SETS. THE AGE
OF THE DESIGN IS UNKNOWN. RIGHT?

For the kings, I found correspondence in their significance in Dao De
Jing. Many versions of translation for Chapter 25 in part was as
follows: "Dao is great; Heaven is great; Earth is great; the king is
great. There are 4 greats in the universe."

This may be another correlative link from Daoism to Mah-Jong or ma
que.

http://www.taopage.org/iching/iching_symbols.html

I can see Zhong-Fa-Bai replaced the two sets of king tiles and the one
set of what I would consider as "wild cards" which mean "changeable".
Why and when the replacement or revision took place I do not know. But
the translation for the same sentence in Dao had been revised to say
"Man is great" instead of "king is great".
+++++++++++++
Cheers....al

> On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw....DeleteThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.

For those interested, The Playing-card editor has informed me that the
Journal, and therefore the article, will be available sometime between
the 28th August and the 1st of September.

On Aug 18, 6:49爌m, Julian Bradfield <j... RemoveThis @inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> mstanw... RemoveThis @talktalk.net writes:
> >> On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw... RemoveThis @talktalk.net wrote:
> >> A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> >> Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> >> Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
> > For those interested, The Playing-card editor has informed me that the
> > Journal, and therefore the article, will be available sometime between
> > the 28th August and the 1st of September.
>
> However, the Playing Card Society has informed me that the Journal
> will not be available to non-members for the indefinite future, as
> they can't find anyone to run the back-issues stock.

I will look into it.

mstanwick RemoveThis @talktalk.net writes:

>> On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw... RemoveThis @talktalk.net wrote:
>> A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
>> Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
>> Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
> For those interested, The Playing-card editor has informed me that the
> Journal, and therefore the article, will be available sometime between
> the 28th August and the 1st of September.

However, the Playing Card Society has informed me that the Journal
will not be available to non-members for the indefinite future, as
they can't find anyone to run the back-issues stock.

On Aug 18, 9:24爌m, mstanw....RemoveThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> On Aug 18, 6:49爌m, Julian Bradfield <j....RemoveThis@inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > mstanw....RemoveThis@talktalk.net writes:
> > >> On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw....RemoveThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> > >> A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> > >> Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> > >> Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
> > > For those interested, The Playing-card editor has informed me that the
> > > Journal, and therefore the article, will be available sometime between
> > > the 28th August and the 1st of September.
>
> > However, the Playing Card Society has informed me that the Journal
> > will not be available to non-members for the indefinite future, as
> > they can't find anyone to run the back-issues stock.
>
> I will look into it.

The Editor of The Playing-card journal has informed me that "MJ
newsgroup members [or anyone else for that matter] can order as
indicated on the IPCS web pages. But please be aware: there is only a
limited number of surplus copies, if there are many requests, this may
become a problem."

On Aug 20, 11:31燼m, Julian Bradfield <j... RemoveThis @inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> mstanw... RemoveThis @talktalk.net writes:
> > The Editor of The Playing-card journal has informed me that "MJ
> > newsgroup members [or anyone else for that matter] can order as
> > indicated on the IPCS web pages. But please be aware: there is only a
> > limited number of surplus copies, if there are many requests, this may
> > become a problem."
>
> Sure, you can order. But you won't get what you order for the
> indefinite future.
>
> I asked for a couple of back issues in November. In February I got a
> mail saying my order was on record, and I would be notified when it
> was possible to fulfill it. It's now August...

I will bring this to the Editor's notice and ask for a response.

> (Having been even more incompetent myself as a back-issues supplier,
> I'm in no position to complain.

Yes you are.


> ..but maybe you should think about putting your articles somewhere where they might get read!

They are read by the membership of The Playing-card! Clearly, there is
the problem of getting the articles to a wider audience. Requests for
photocopies will be accepted after the article has been published.

If anybody wishes to have the previous articles (there are 4 in all)
instead of the Playing-card journals in which they appear (due to the
back-issue problem), I can send photocopies with colour reproductions.

I have not considered placing older articles on a public archive. Can
you explain how it is done?

> It's not as if you get paid for them, is it?

The primary aim is to have them published in a publication devoted to
the subject area and that has academic or scholarly rigour or
appreciation to research. I have copyright. Once they are published, I
then have photocopies made.

mstanwick.DeleteThis@talktalk.net writes:

> The Editor of The Playing-card journal has informed me that "MJ
> newsgroup members [or anyone else for that matter] can order as
> indicated on the IPCS web pages. But please be aware: there is only a
> limited number of surplus copies, if there are many requests, this may
> become a problem."

Sure, you can order. But you won't get what you order for the
indefinite future.

I asked for a couple of back issues in November. In February I got a
mail saying my order was on record, and I would be notified when it
was possible to fulfill it. It's now August...

(Having been even more incompetent myself as a back-issues supplier,
I'm in no position to complain...but maybe you should think about
putting your articles somewhere where they might get read! In most
real subjects, people put their articles on their homepages or in a
public archive, and this is even beginning to happen in the
humanities;-) It's not as if you get paid for them, is it?)

On Aug 20, 11:31燼m, Julian Bradfield <j... DeleteThis @inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> I asked for a couple of back issues in November. In February I got a
> mail saying my order was on record, and I would be notified when it
> was possible to fulfill it. It's now August...

Ok. I have had a message from the Editor regarding my query about the
back-issue problem. Apparently they had only recently found someone to
handle the back-issue orders and hence there is a delay is getting the
orders posted.

On Aug 13, 10:51爌m, mstanw... RemoveThis @talktalk.net wrote:
> > On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw... RemoveThis @talktalk.net wrote:
> > A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> > Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> > Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
> For those interested, The Playing-card editor has informed me that the
> Journal, and therefore the article, will be available sometime between
> the 28th August and the 1st of September.

Actually, the Journal has now been published. The cover sports an
excellent colour print of 16 Flowers/Seasons depicting images of war -
probably the sino-Japanese conflict. The back cover has a color print
of the entire set these tiles belong to.

I just got the journal today in the post!
The pictures are very nice. I've only skimmed the artilce but it certainly
looks like a work of much scholarship. Congratulations, Michael.(and Hong
Bing too).
The pictures of the Ganjifa cards are quite pretty too.

<mstanwick.DeleteThis@talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:b43caa9f-d0d2-48a7-9a00-21dc5c149a76@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 13, 10:51 pm, mstanw....DeleteThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> > On May 30, 4:32 am, mstanw....DeleteThis@talktalk.net wrote:
> > A new article titled "Flowers and Kings: A Hypothesis of their
> > Function in Early Ma Que" is to be published in The Playing-card,
> > Volume 37, No 1, sometime around August/September.
>
> For those interested, The Playing-card editor has informed me that the
> Journal, and therefore the article, will be available sometime between
> the 28th August and the 1st of September.

Actually, the Journal has now been published. The cover sports an
excellent colour print of 16 Flowers/Seasons depicting images of war -
probably the sino-Japanese conflict. The back cover has a color print
of the entire set these tiles belong to.

On Sep 24, 9:04爌m, "Pwee Keng Ho" <pwe... RemoveThis @singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> I just got the journal today in the post!
> The pictures are very nice. I've only skimmed the artilce but it certainly
> looks like a work of much scholarship. Congratulations, Michael.(and Hong
> Bing too).

Thank you Keng Ho. We tried to put as much relevant information/data
in the article as length constraints would allow. There are a few
glitches. For example, the date of the Sheng set is wrong in the
Table. It should be < 1890.

In the near future I hope to present a short article, with pictures,
of individual cards from some partial three-suited Chinese playing
card decks that I have acquired from a Chinese collector. These decks
sport designs nearly identical to decks acquired by Laufer while he
was in China 1901 - 1904 that represent the money-suit system category
of Chinese playing cards. The collector had them labelled as circa
1910. A similar deck is featured in Prunner's catalogue under 'Money
Playing Cards' # VII 1 - 30.

I also hope to present a coloured replica deck of a MJ Playing card
deck from circa 1900. This deck is # XIX 1 - 39 in Prunner's
catalogue. Another complete deck (120 cards) from circa 1939 will also
be presented, that sports insignia representing the money-suit
category, and that has pictures of the Sino/Japanese conflict. These
designs are very similar to those MJ tiles on the cover of the current
issue of The Playing-card journal.

I will draw comparisons between these decks and the money-suit
insignia and the pictures present on them and the insignia and
pictures (or lack of) present on tiles in ma que tile sets and the
early MJ card deck.

> The pictures of the Ganjifa cards are quite pretty too.

I agree. I have only skimmed the article but it seems the author had
these cards painted by artists he knows. Quite impressive work.

Incidentally, there is an abslutely excellent article with the most
gorgeous pictures of Ganjifa cards in the 'Asian Games: The Art of
Contest' catalogue edited by Colin MacKenzie and Irving Finkel. If you
have not got this book then I urge you, without hesitation, to acquire
a copy.

I do indeed have a copy of that book, though I prize it most highly for the
chapter on dice and the lovely pictures therein.


<mstanwick.RemoveThis@talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:8e2dd20a-d57c-49f5-9fd0-be916e668ae8@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 24, 9:04 pm, "Pwee Keng Ho" <pwe....RemoveThis@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> I just got the journal today in the post!
> The pictures are very nice. I've only skimmed the artilce but it certainly
> looks like a work of much scholarship. Congratulations, Michael.(and Hong
> Bing too).

Thank you Keng Ho. We tried to put as much relevant information/data
in the article as length constraints would allow. There are a few
glitches. For example, the date of the Sheng set is wrong in the
Table. It should be < 1890.

In the near future I hope to present a short article, with pictures,
of individual cards from some partial three-suited Chinese playing
card decks that I have acquired from a Chinese collector. These decks
sport designs nearly identical to decks acquired by Laufer while he
was in China 1901 - 1904 that represent the money-suit system category
of Chinese playing cards. The collector had them labelled as circa
1910. A similar deck is featured in Prunner's catalogue under 'Money
Playing Cards' # VII 1 - 30.

I also hope to present a coloured replica deck of a MJ Playing card
deck from circa 1900. This deck is # XIX 1 - 39 in Prunner's
catalogue. Another complete deck (120 cards) from circa 1939 will also
be presented, that sports insignia representing the money-suit
category, and that has pictures of the Sino/Japanese conflict. These
designs are very similar to those MJ tiles on the cover of the current
issue of The Playing-card journal.

I will draw comparisons between these decks and the money-suit
insignia and the pictures present on them and the insignia and
pictures (or lack of) present on tiles in ma que tile sets and the
early MJ card deck.

> The pictures of the Ganjifa cards are quite pretty too.

I agree. I have only skimmed the article but it seems the author had
these cards painted by artists he knows. Quite impressive work.

Incidentally, there is an abslutely excellent article with the most
gorgeous pictures of Ganjifa cards in the 'Asian Games: The Art of
Contest' catalogue edited by Colin MacKenzie and Irving Finkel. If you
have not got this book then I urge you, without hesitation, to acquire
a copy.