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Since: Dec 20, 2008 Posts: 6
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:08 pm
Post subject: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? Archived from groups: rec>games>vectrex (more info?)
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Hi! I'm trying to re-live two Vectrex boxes. I don't know if the
infamous LM379 issue is present in any of these units, but prior to
deal with it, I have to give life to the logic board.
No one of them makes sounds when powered up. I've opened one of them
and I have disassembled the logic board, and powered with a 5V
stabilized power supply.
To check for CPU, RAM or ROM damage, I've replaced the ROM (actually,
a 2764 EPROM) with a Flash EPROM pin compatible with 2764, with a tiny
test program. This program does not make use of RAM, so even if RAM is
damaged, this program should work (assuming that the CPU is alive).
The program is this:
ORG $E000
Start:
Init_VIA: LDA #$D0
TFR A,DP
LDD #$9FFF ;Port A=all output
STD <VIA_DDR_b ;Port B=10011111
CLRA
STA <VIA_int_enable ;Deshabilitamos
interrupciones en la VIA
STA <VIA_port_b
LDA #$05
Bucle: STA <VIA_port_a_nohs
ROLA
BRA Bucle
The effect of this program is to write 00000101 to port A on the VIA
6522. Then, 00001010, then 00010100, and so on, rotating the value one
bit to the left on each loop, so I can see using a scope two 5V
adjacent pulses, followed by a 0V region, then two 5V pulses again,
and so on. This should be seen on every pin at port A.
When I power up the Vectrex logic board, I can see this pattern but
only in some pins. Others show always the same logic level, and some
others show some noise, with the pulses overimpossed and atenuated.
If I plug the VIA 6522 from the other console, it shows more or less
the same, or worse (no pulses at all).
So, was the VIA 6522 a common issue on the Vectrex? Did this chip get
damaged frequently?
Thanks!!
PS: I ran a more complex program to test the RAM and use working pins
on VIA to show me the result: the RAM is OK. |
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Since: Jun 15, 2008 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:04 am
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 21, 3:08 am, "McLeod/IdeaFix" <rodri... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> No one of them makes sounds when powered up. I've opened one of them
> and I have disassembled the logic board, and powered with a 5V
> stabilized power supply.
>
> The effect of this program is to write 00000101 to port A on the VIA
> 6522. Then, 00001010, then 00010100, and so on, rotating the value one
> bit to the left on each loop, so I can see using a scope two 5V
> adjacent pulses, followed by a 0V region, then two 5V pulses again,
> and so on. This should be seen on every pin at port A.
>
> When I power up the Vectrex logic board, I can see this pattern but
> only in some pins. Others show always the same logic level, and some
> others show some noise, with the pulses overimpossed and atenuated.
>
> If I plug the VIA 6522 from the other console, it shows more or less
> the same, or worse (no pulses at all).
>
> So, was the VIA 6522 a common issue on the Vectrex? Did this chip get
> damaged frequently?
>
Sounds to me like the AY-3 sound chip could equally be to blame,
especially as there is no sound. Did you try swapping those chips
between your boards? You could try just removing it and repeat your
port A test, in case the AY is shorting some data lines to a rail.
Your method for testing the system is very thorough. I think I would
have probably just replaced the ROM in a spare cartridge with an eprom
and tested it that way. Mind you, I actually acquired a 6809 ICE for
helping with my Vectrex development. Lovely bit of kit, and makes
things very easy!
Neil |
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Since: Dec 20, 2008 Posts: 6
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:24 am
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 21 dic, 19:04, Calamity <neil_m....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 21, 3:08 am, "McLeod/IdeaFix" <rodri....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > No one of them makes sounds when powered up. I've opened one of them
> > and I have disassembled the logic board, and powered with a 5V
> > stabilized power supply.
>
> > The effect of this program is to write 00000101 to port A on the VIA
> > 6522. Then, 00001010, then 00010100, and so on, rotating the value one
> > bit to the left on each loop, so I can see using a scope two 5V
> > adjacent pulses, followed by a 0V region, then two 5V pulses again,
> > and so on. This should be seen on every pin at port A.
>
> > When I power up the Vectrex logic board, I can see this pattern but
> > only in some pins. Others show always the same logic level, and some
> > others show some noise, with the pulses overimpossed and atenuated.
>
> > If I plug the VIA 6522 from the other console, it shows more or less
> > the same, or worse (no pulses at all).
>
> > So, was the VIA 6522 a common issue on the Vectrex? Did this chip get
> > damaged frequently?
>
> Sounds to me like the AY-3 sound chip could equally be to blame,
> especially as there is no sound. Did you try swapping those chips
I tried two 6522's and with both ports, and no result. Nevertheless,
I'll try removing the AY chip and re-test again.
> Your method for testing the system is very thorough. I think I would
> have probably just replaced the ROM in a spare cartridge with an eprom
That works, but only if your ROM and RAM already works (as the ROM
routines calls to some routines, and each JSR instruction needs RAM to
keep hold the return address. If, like me, you suspect for a failure
on any of these components, a custom ROM with a program that makes no
use of RAM is mandatory. Also, this has allowed me to test the RAM
without having to desolder the chips. |
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Since: Dec 20, 2008 Posts: 6
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> > Sounds to me like the AY-3 sound chip could equally be to blame,
> > especially as there is no sound. Did you try swapping those chips
I found the culprit: I misread the schematics and thought that the
MC1408 was not connected to port A. In fact, it is. Removing it caused
port A to came back to work, but not on the original 6522 chip, which
is also damaged. I've put a new-old-stock 6522A, and, without the
MC1408, I've been able to hear the Vectrex welcome chord again, after
many years
Hope the LM379 is not damaged too, but... honestly, I'm not sure about
that :\ |
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Since: Mar 31, 2008 Posts: 40
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> I found the culprit: I misread the schematics and thought that the
> MC1408 was not connected to port A. In fact, it is. Removing it caused
> port A to came back to work, but not on the original 6522 chip, which
> is also damaged. I've put a new-old-stock 6522A, and, without the
> MC1408, I've been able to hear the Vectrex welcome chord again, after
> many years
> Hope the LM379 is not damaged too, but... honestly, I'm not sure about
> that :\
>
Found some old LM379 testing info:
http://www.geocities.com/kirbseepe/repairAMP.html
There are actually a couple on Ebay but they
are selling for around $30 |
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Since: Dec 20, 2008 Posts: 6
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 24 dic, 19:56, JD <None@*verizon.net> wrote:
> > I found the culprit: I misread the schematics and thought that the
> Found some old LM379 testing info:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/kirbseepe/repairAMP.html
I don't know if that applies to the Vectrex, as the LM379 is used in a
somewhat non standard way. I mean: it's an audio amplifier, but not
used for amplifying audio on the Vectrex, so another audio amplifier
does not have to work the same way.
I suspect that the 555, or some other component related to it, is
broken, as I cannot hear the high pitched buzz that's very
caracteristic on a cathodic day tube unit when it's working. It could
be also the flyback transformer.
Meanwhile, I'm started to repair another Vectrex: this time I've been
very lucky: this one had a broken/incorrect 6522 (I mean incorrect
because I think that this unit was "repaired" by using a standard
6522, instead of a 6522A). After replacing it with a correct, working
VIA, this second Vectrex is fully functional!
Two more Vectrex are on the way to be checked. I guess I can revive at
least one more Vextrex, using spares from these others. |
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Since: Jul 12, 2006 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 24, 11:33 pm, "McLeod/IdeaFix" <rodri... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24 dic, 19:56, JD <None@*verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > I found the culprit: I misread the schematics and thought that the
> > Found some old LM379 testing info:
>
> >http://www.geocities.com/kirbseepe/repairAMP.html
>
> I don't know if that applies to the Vectrex, as the LM379 is used in a
> somewhat non standard way. I mean: it's an audio amplifier, but not
> used for amplifying audio on the Vectrex, so another audio amplifier
> does not have to work the same way.
>
> I suspect that the 555, or some other component related to it, is
> broken, as I cannot hear the high pitched buzz that's very
> caracteristic on a cathodic day tube unit when it's working. It could
> be also the flyback transformer.
>
> Meanwhile, I'm started to repair another Vectrex: this time I've been
> very lucky: this one had a broken/incorrect 6522 (I mean incorrect
> because I think that this unit was "repaired" by using a standard
> 6522, instead of a 6522A). After replacing it with a correct, working
> VIA, this second Vectrex is fully functional!
>
> Two more Vectrex are on the way to be checked. I guess I can revive at
> least one more Vextrex, using spares from these others.
I don't think that you can hear the "flyback buzz" on Vectrex because
it is a vector-display so it doesn't use the 17kHz frequency to drive
the high voltage transformer. Your job would be easier if you had an
oscilloscope. I don't recall the frequency generated by that 555.
The LM379 is used in a way similar to an audio amp. Except instead of
driving a speaker's voicecoil, it drives the horizontal and vertical
yoke coils. Again, a scope would be helpful in troubleshooting.
Peteski |
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Since: Dec 20, 2008 Posts: 6
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: 6522 broken. Is it a common issue on Vectrex? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> I don't think that you can hear the "flyback buzz" on Vectrex because
> it is a vector-display so it doesn't use the 17kHz frequency to drive
> the high voltage transformer. Your job would be easier if you had an
> oscilloscope. I don't recall the frequency generated by that 555.
Yes, it does not use the 17 kHz frequency from a hypotetical
horizontal retrace signal, but the frequency generated by the 555,
which, acording to the power board schematic, falls between 14 kHz and
30 kHz (depending on the position of R526). I will use the scope to
measure the frequency both on the working Vectrex and the non working
one, but I bet that the 555 is calibrated to give a 17 kHz signal
(because there's no horizontal retrace signal, and I'm pretty sure
that flyback transformers were designed to operate at that frequency)
> The LM379 is used in a way similar to an audio amp. Except instead of
> driving a speaker's voicecoil, it drives the horizontal and vertical
> yoke coils. Again, a scope would be helpful in troubleshooting.
Once I discard the 555 or the flyback transformer, I'll put the scope
on the LM379  |
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